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Old December 30th, 2005, 04:29 AM   #1
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Ipod and xl2 ???

Hi
i wonder if its possible to use an ipod with an xl2 ????
It would be great if you could capture video data with it...
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Old December 31st, 2005, 03:27 AM   #2
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I dont get it.... why does everyone want to use their iPod to capture video? Even if you could make it work the ipod is NOT designed to be a HDD, and you will dramatically decrease the life by constantly moving files... I have killed a couple of them!

ash =o)
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Old December 31st, 2005, 08:31 AM   #3
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id like to find this out too.. for an xl1s
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Old December 31st, 2005, 08:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Loehr
Hi
i wonder if its possible to use an ipod with an xl2 ????
It would be great if you could capture video data with it...
Why would you want to? What benefit would dedicating a several hundred dollar hardware device to capturing the same or less information as one can fit on a $10 tape cassette in no higher quality than the tape provides gain you?
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Old December 31st, 2005, 09:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
Why would you want to? What benefit would dedicating a several hundred dollar hardware device to capturing the same or less information as one can fit on a $10 tape cassette in no higher quality than the tape provides gain you?
Look cool.
I still love the looks I get with my xl2.
As for the ipod, this would be great for 3 hour runs with no tape change just like the hard drive in a bag solutions were all about. But since you won't edit off the ipod drive you still have to do a transfer.
Practically, Steve is right.
The last corporate multimedia event I staged at a large casino saw the use of an ipod for every musical cue. That was cool but you can't dee jay with one.
Steve is right. Tape is cheap.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 04:34 PM   #6
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Actually ....

you can DJ with an Ipod...markertek has an Ipod mixer. but if you want to capture to disk... get a firepod or something made for that. I know Ipods are all the rage.. I have 3 of them, but as a network engineer by day - hacking gear can only lead to trouble like lost footage, or unuable formats, or even worse... dead ipod.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 12:49 AM   #7
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I don't own an iPod, and haven't even wanted one until they came out with the extra features like podcasting and the video capabilities...now I really want one, but it will have to wait.

As far as capturing to the iPod...from what I have read up on the devices (cuz I was curious) I would have to surmise the following (bear in mind that this is all speculation):

1.) This is probably not something you would want to do directly through the iPod interface, although I am sure a hack could certainly be designed to allow this - it may also render the unit buggy, and buggy isn't good for video capture....so since the iPod can be partitioned, the recommendation would be to get a rudimentary app running on a rudimentary OS sitting on a sizable enough partition to store the anticipated video files.

2.) The iPod is designed to run video encoded in a highly compressed (although intelligently) codec (h.264 variant) that makes for much Much MUCH smaller file sizes that the typical dv signal output by most dv camcorders. The demand is fine for the iPod, but trying to capture the full quality dv from the camcorder into the iPod would simply not be recommended, simply because the speed of the iPod drive is just not up to the task - I would think that it runs too slowly to be effective to capture the full quality dv. If you were somehow able to have it convert the incoming signal on the fly as it was coming in, then the drive would be fine....but good luck on that since in my experience, it already takes some hefty horse power to convert to the iPod codec using a decent computing system. The iPod wasn't designed with this in mind, and it most very VERY likely not appropriately up to the task.

3.) If you do figure out a way to convert and capture on the fly...what you would end up with is a captured file that is significantly compressed - thereby lower quality than your typical dv capture - if you have to blow it up to work with in your NLE, you would likely have to compress it again to render and export to the end-run intended medium.....at which time you would end up with an image quality that might make you think twice about the 'coolness' factor of using an iPod as the hub of your tapeless system.

Just my two cents.

Of course, the MacWorld expo is just around the corner, and who knows, maybe Apple will come out with an expanded iPod (already) or some type of device for video professionals that adds the coolness of the iPod to the funtionality of a tapeless capture system.....but I highly doubt it. Apple tends to be choosy about what it does so that it does it very well...letting other industries and manufacturers do their own things (for better or worse) hence...Apple didn't make their own iTunes capable phone (should have though so we wouldn't have had to endure the Motorola ROKR [SUKR])...and they aren't likely to manufacturer their own version of the Firestore anytime soon either...but then again, they like to keep folks guessing.
-Jon
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Old January 1st, 2006, 08:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones
3.) If you do figure out a way to convert and capture on the fly...what you would end up with is a captured file that is significantly compressed
Okay this isn't true but I'll throw in just because this type of stuff keeps coming up.

Ipods use 1.8" hard drives. Blackmagic has successfully played back DVCPRO HD from this continously (2 days or something like that) . DVCPRO HD is exactly 4 times the data of miniDV. So you have the speed. At the limits of the drive, but its their.

1.8" hard drives are not designed for continous use. They are designed for intermediate use. Spin up, read 40mb, spin down, rinse and repeat as necessary. Continous writting and reading will destroy the drive long before your battery will go. All you have to do is read the drive specs from toshiba.

Ipods are usb slave devices! So you need to take a firewire stream, have the device understand frames and all the data, and figure out a file system (insanity in an fpga, so you need a processor), write data after reorganizing it a bit, and when thats all over with write the file location in the file table. Not to mention you need to understand the hdd command structure over usb.

So unless you are a team of Electrical engineers its not happening. The older ipods had firewire which meant it might have been possible, but not now, not with the new ones. But incase you are an EE all you have to do is design the electroncs, write the firmware, know and understand the usb host and slave protocol, firewire transmission, file systems, and then make a PCB and install the components. Simple!

So this is really just nonsense. Their is a product available that does what you want, its called firestore FS-4. And I'm sure you can get it through a few of the great sponsors on this site.(40gb fs-4 $610 at b and h photo) Because by the time you've built a translator you could have bought a firestore ten times over. I assure you, being and engineering student and working on products intended for electronics and video production market, a firewire to usb host convertor is hard to build even for and EE and then running it on an ipod just is bad news.
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Old January 1st, 2006, 12:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Wakeham
Okay this isn't true but I'll throw in just because this type of stuff keeps coming up.
Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead....Although I did indicate it was 'possible' it is also certainly impractical. I realize the drive itself would be adequate (to a degree) - but the platter is only part of the makeup - the accompanying in/out components with that constancy of thruput would theoretically decrease the efficacy of the drive with profound severity. I don't have the technical knowledge you provided, so thanks for the clarification.

This topic has been posted alot over the last couple of weeks by others, so your input has helped to clear it up considerbly...I hope others read it as well as I am sure that as the new video iPod gains more popluarity, others will be asking the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Wakeham
So this is really just nonsense. Their is a product available that does what you want, its called firestore FS-4. And I'm sure you can get it through a few of the great sponsors on this site.(40gb fs-4 $610 at b and h photo) Because by the time you've built a translator you could have bought a firestore ten times over. I assure you, being and engineering student and working on products intended for electronics and video production market, a firewire to usb host convertor is hard to build even for and EE and then running it on an ipod just is bad news.
Well said, fully agree.

-Jon
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