Micro35 and XL2

Matthew Nayman · January 17th, 2006, 05:13 PM

I have been hearing something about a viewfinder-flipper for the XL2. Is it a prism that fits over the LCD?> This image flip is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying a Micro35. (I already own an external monitor, but it has an automatic image flip, so if you turn it upside down, the image inverts... GAH!)

Matt

Declan Smith · January 17th, 2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

This image flip is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying a Micro35.
Matt

One quick solution that does work is to mount the XL2 viewfinder on the right hand side. You can just about go shoulder mount with it, but really, IMHO, using one of these adapters should be on tripod anyway. It takes a little while to get used to the vf on the other side, but much quicker than trying to learn how to frame with flipped image!!

Matthew Nayman · January 17th, 2006, 06:01 PM

I tried putting the viewfinder on the otherside, and have found iot really doesnt fit well at all. It only sits VERY close to the camera, and it is basically impossible to look thru it. You also cant open it up when it's flipped

Declan Smith · January 17th, 2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

I tried putting the viewfinder on the otherside, and have found iot really doesnt fit well at all. It only sits VERY close to the camera, and it is basically impossible to look thru it. You also cant open it up when it's flipped

I agree it's not ideal but I can certainly open up the VF when flipped; the viewfinder opens downwards. Yes you can't use it very well at all horizontally, but point the viewfinder up and look down it, very possible on a tripod. You can't use the 35mm lenses effectively handheld (because the focus is so tight). With the FU-1000 viewfinder, you have more scope for shoulder mounting as the mount is longer, but I agree that with the standard colour LCD, you can't view through it when the VF is horizontal.

It's a tradeoff, I know, but I use the viewfinder mounted this way when using my 35mm adapters no problem, just takes a bit of getting used to (much easier with the FU-1000 though, and better resolution for focussing).

Matthew Nayman · January 17th, 2006, 10:22 PM

Once again, does anyone know if you can buy a colour EVF seperatly from Canon?

Eniola Akintoye · January 18th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Guys,
I have a whole bunce of questions and I would appreciate any productive response.

What sort of lenses are some of ya'all using with your M2 to make the XL2 get that beautiful film look. I currently have a Nikon 50mm f1.8 and I am expecting the 50mm f1.4 soon. In regards to higher ???mm, which one is best for the M2?

Does anyone have any idea how to get a wide angle shot with the M2 adapter. because I have a .55x Century Optics wide angle lense but I am not able to use it to get any wide angle shots?

Also, I thought we needed different lenses for different reasons, e.g Nikon 105mm lenses I think are used for short distance shots or what sort of cases do we use the Nikon 85mm, 105mm, 135mm, 35mm lenses?

Under water shots, what under water covers or protectors can someone use with the M2 adapter.
Do someone still have to use the same Nikon lenses or are their any special lenses for under water shooting?

MatteBox, I just purchased a Formatte Matte Box and hopefully will be usable for the M2. Well, I have not received it yet though, but how do you attach it infront of the Nikon lens when it is originally a 72mm ring?

Brian Valente · January 24th, 2006, 11:55 AM

Hi guys -

Just a couple quick comments. All posted sample footage on our site to date is shot with still 35mm lenses, primarily nikon or canon (though there is a minolta one in there :) )

Regarding shoulder mount and rods, we do sell a shorter 9" rod set (as well as a longer 24" rod set) which may help (if I understand your shoulder setup correctly).

Also on wide angle lenses, pretty much any 35mm wide angle will do. I have had great success with 20mm, 28mm, and 35mm focal lengths. One of the last scenes in this trailer (where she gets up from the table) was shot with a 28mm canon fl (a vivatar actually, $30 at Sammy's):

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/..._size_plus.mov

The production notes are here:

http://redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1116

Matthew Nayman · January 24th, 2006, 02:25 PM

Hey Brian,

Any word on that viewfinder flipper I heard talked about?>

Matt

Brian Valente · January 24th, 2006, 07:42 PM

Well, it's still not public, if that's what you mean!

Matthew Nayman · January 24th, 2006, 08:13 PM

Can you possibly make it public for me. Therefore I would buy one ;)

(Denying it at this point is like denying Area 51)

*Is whisked away by men in black suits

Brian Valente · January 24th, 2006, 09:39 PM

If I told you here, it wouldn't exactly be just telling you, would it?

Now, where is my black suit.... *rummage*

Matthew Nayman · January 25th, 2006, 06:52 PM

Ha ha ha....
No I fully understand. I am not special, adn if you can't tell me, that's cool.
However, if there is any word on when this "non-existant" product might come into existence, I'll start saving now. :O

Jeff Ray · January 31st, 2006, 08:12 PM

Hey guys,

I also have an XL2/M2 set-up. I use the 20x lens as my relay lens, and while genuinely concerned at first with the set-up (like you seem to be Matt), I can tell you that after a while, you really do get used to it.

What most people don't understand before they purchase these 35mm adapters is that when you put that sucker on the front of an XL2, it's not really a "digital" camera anymore. In the sense that run and gun "guerilla" type filmmaking isn't really THAT possible anymore. It's more like an actual film camera set-up. With the still lenses (I use a Canon FD mount), you have to be pretty precise with your composition, lighting, camera movement, etc. But when you do all that, the results can be quite astounding. Just don't go into it thinking you can accomplish "Saving Private Ryan"-type handheld movements right off the bat. It takes practice.

Having said all that, two days after getting my M2 set-up in the mail from Redrock, I went out around Austin with my brother and tested it out. First time using it, NO tripod, it IS handheld (but relatively static). Keep in mind that it was my first time using the adapter, and I had not correctly set my GG image element, so there is a noticeable amount of flicker, but soon after posting this footage online, the guys at the redrock forums helped me fix it and the thing is a beauty now.

So again, Canon XL2 with the M2 adapter, using a Canon FD 50mm 1.4

Here's the footage: http://suitedproductions.com/redrock_test.html

Matthew Nayman · January 31st, 2006, 09:16 PM

Jeff,

I understand what you mena, however I have shot handheld 35mm using arri and atton cams. I have a lot of experience doing complex hand held work with follow focuses and heavy cams. My style of film making nessecsitates the ability to go handheld, hence, wanting a proper viewfinder.

Hunter Sandison · February 1st, 2006, 06:12 AM

Hey guys,
I've read this thread and the Red Rocks website and I still have a few questions which you could probably clear up for me if you would.

1.) The M2 requires a 72mm barrel on the relay lens. Does this mean I can use the 16x manual XL zoom as a relay lens? Is there any reason I shouldn't?

2.) If using the zoom as a relay lens do you zoom it to 20mm(because a 20mm prime was discussed as a relay lens earlier in this thread)? What about the focus and iris on the relay? Do you set it to minimum and wide open respectivley and just leave it there(using the 35mm lens to make all focus and exposure adjustments)?

3.) If using the M2 with PL mount primes can I use my follow focus for the 16x on the 35mm primes? Its set up for 15mm rods, but does anyone know if their teeth have the same pitch?

Thanks- Hunter

January 24th, 2006, 11:55 AM	#37
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Hi guys - Just a couple quick comments. All posted sample footage on our site to date is shot with still 35mm lenses, primarily nikon or canon (though there is a minolta one in there :) ) Regarding shoulder mount and rods, we do sell a shorter 9" rod set (as well as a longer 24" rod set) which may help (if I understand your shoulder setup correctly). Also on wide angle lenses, pretty much any 35mm wide angle will do. I have had great success with 20mm, 28mm, and 35mm focal lengths. One of the last scenes in this trailer (where she gets up from the table) was shot with a 28mm canon fl (a vivatar actually, $30 at Sammy's): http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/..._size_plus.mov The production notes are here: http://redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1116 __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

January 24th, 2006, 07:42 PM	#39
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Well, it's still not public, if that's what you mean! __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

January 24th, 2006, 09:39 PM	#41
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	If I told you here, it wouldn't exactly be just telling you, would it? Now, where is my black suit.... rummage __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

February 1st, 2006, 06:12 AM	#45
Hunter Sandison New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 21	A few questions Hey guys, I've read this thread and the Red Rocks website and I still have a few questions which you could probably clear up for me if you would. 1.) The M2 requires a 72mm barrel on the relay lens. Does this mean I can use the 16x manual XL zoom as a relay lens? Is there any reason I shouldn't? 2.) If using the zoom as a relay lens do you zoom it to 20mm(because a 20mm prime was discussed as a relay lens earlier in this thread)? What about the focus and iris on the relay? Do you set it to minimum and wide open respectivley and just leave it there(using the 35mm lens to make all focus and exposure adjustments)? 3.) If using the M2 with PL mount primes can I use my follow focus for the 16x on the 35mm primes? Its set up for 15mm rods, but does anyone know if their teeth have the same pitch? Thanks- Hunter

January 17th, 2006, 05:13 PM	#31
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I have been hearing something about a viewfinder-flipper for the XL2. Is it a prism that fits over the LCD?> This image flip is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying a Micro35. (I already own an external monitor, but it has an automatic image flip, so if you turn it upside down, the image inverts... GAH!) Matt

January 17th, 2006, 06:01 PM	#33
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I tried putting the viewfinder on the otherside, and have found iot really doesnt fit well at all. It only sits VERY close to the camera, and it is basically impossible to look thru it. You also cant open it up when it's flipped

January 17th, 2006, 10:22 PM	#35
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Once again, does anyone know if you can buy a colour EVF seperatly from Canon?

January 18th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#36
Eniola Akintoye Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Duluth GA Posts: 238	Guys, I have a whole bunce of questions and I would appreciate any productive response. What sort of lenses are some of ya'all using with your M2 to make the XL2 get that beautiful film look. I currently have a Nikon 50mm f1.8 and I am expecting the 50mm f1.4 soon. In regards to higher ???mm, which one is best for the M2? Does anyone have any idea how to get a wide angle shot with the M2 adapter. because I have a .55x Century Optics wide angle lense but I am not able to use it to get any wide angle shots? Also, I thought we needed different lenses for different reasons, e.g Nikon 105mm lenses I think are used for short distance shots or what sort of cases do we use the Nikon 85mm, 105mm, 135mm, 35mm lenses? Under water shots, what under water covers or protectors can someone use with the M2 adapter. Do someone still have to use the same Nikon lenses or are their any special lenses for under water shooting? MatteBox, I just purchased a Formatte Matte Box and hopefully will be usable for the M2. Well, I have not received it yet though, but how do you attach it infront of the Nikon lens when it is originally a 72mm ring?

January 24th, 2006, 02:25 PM	#38
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Hey Brian, Any word on that viewfinder flipper I heard talked about?> Matt

January 24th, 2006, 08:13 PM	#40
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Can you possibly make it public for me. Therefore I would buy one ;) (Denying it at this point is like denying Area 51) *Is whisked away by men in black suits

January 25th, 2006, 06:52 PM	#42
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Ha ha ha.... No I fully understand. I am not special, adn if you can't tell me, that's cool. However, if there is any word on when this "non-existant" product might come into existence, I'll start saving now. :O

January 31st, 2006, 08:12 PM	#43
Jeff Ray Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 49	Hey guys, I also have an XL2/M2 set-up. I use the 20x lens as my relay lens, and while genuinely concerned at first with the set-up (like you seem to be Matt), I can tell you that after a while, you really do get used to it. What most people don't understand before they purchase these 35mm adapters is that when you put that sucker on the front of an XL2, it's not really a "digital" camera anymore. In the sense that run and gun "guerilla" type filmmaking isn't really THAT possible anymore. It's more like an actual film camera set-up. With the still lenses (I use a Canon FD mount), you have to be pretty precise with your composition, lighting, camera movement, etc. But when you do all that, the results can be quite astounding. Just don't go into it thinking you can accomplish "Saving Private Ryan"-type handheld movements right off the bat. It takes practice. Having said all that, two days after getting my M2 set-up in the mail from Redrock, I went out around Austin with my brother and tested it out. First time using it, NO tripod, it IS handheld (but relatively static). Keep in mind that it was my first time using the adapter, and I had not correctly set my GG image element, so there is a noticeable amount of flicker, but soon after posting this footage online, the guys at the redrock forums helped me fix it and the thing is a beauty now. So again, Canon XL2 with the M2 adapter, using a Canon FD 50mm 1.4 Here's the footage: http://suitedproductions.com/redrock_test.html

January 31st, 2006, 09:16 PM	#44
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Jeff, I understand what you mena, however I have shot handheld 35mm using arri and atton cams. I have a lot of experience doing complex hand held work with follow focuses and heavy cams. My style of film making nessecsitates the ability to go handheld, hence, wanting a proper viewfinder.