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-   -   XL-2 Time Lapse AND Sunrise/set? (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/62159-xl-2-time-lapse-sunrise-set.html)

Joe Desmond March 5th, 2006 11:32 AM

XL-2 Time Lapse AND Sunrise/set?
 
(i) Would recording a sunrise and/or sunset "burn" or damage the CCD's, the camera, or the lens at all or in any way?

(ii) Time Lapse in 24Pa 16x9 shooting at 1/48.

If anyone has scene REQUIEM FOR A DREAM or ADAPTATION, in terms of time-lapse, how can I get a fairly smooth to super SMOOTH speed-up, fast-motion (without too much blurring) in regards to time lapse? Would shooting at intervals of 30 seconds and 60 frames cut it (is that even possible/realistic?)...

Does the time lapse on this camera work automatically whereas I select it and place the camera on its tripod, click record, and come back x-minutes later?

How would I calculate how many seconds I've recorded? I've been referring to the Wikipedia article @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_lapse especially this picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:T...posureTime.png) but I'm but already confused.

Thanks in advance. I've searched this forum and only found one other topic covering this, which didn't conclude much. The XL-2 manual states the times and etc but doesn't explain the basics in a way I can understand...

Thanks.

Jacob Ehrichs March 5th, 2006 01:32 PM

Just a few things I've looked into before.

The smoothest motion you'll get is if you run the tape continious for 60 min, or run in LP for 80 min. The LP tapes and you can record a loonnngg time.

Alternately, I'm still running Premiere 6, and it has a stop motion capture setting. You can specify how many frames to capture per minute. If it's somewhere were you have power, and is secure enough to leave your camera and perhaps a laptop in place, that's the way I'd go.

I'm sure some sort of filtering is going to be needed. The sun is a little bright. I'm just not sure what is needed. I'd like to do the same with my XL1 but haven't because I'd rather not burn out the chips.

Nick Weeks March 5th, 2006 02:17 PM

I've done multiple time lapses of sunrise/sunset... just make sure you use filtering. They make solar filters, but I used the built in 'ND2' filtering on my VX2100 and it produces a nice clear picture, and I haven't had any CCD problems that I've noticed.

Both my XL1s and VX2100 have time lapse setting on them (on the Sony it's called Interval Recording). Not sure about the XL1s, but you set how long it records and how often. FOr example, record for 1 second every minute, or 1.5 sec every 5 min, etc. etc

I can't remember what setting I used, but the shorter the record time between 'takes' will result in a smoother image. I would try recording .5sec every minute. See how that turns out.

Joe Desmond March 6th, 2006 06:19 PM

Does anyone else know if the sun can damage the CCD chips?

Would a UV filter cut it or no?

Andrew Khalil March 6th, 2006 06:35 PM

I've never shot a timelapse of a sunset, but I have done shooting of sunsets for short periods of time. I would say using the ND filter would make sense - just keep in mind it'll get a lot brighter as the sunrises or dimmer as it sets. Lastly, I think you'd be fine with the timelapse setting at 1 frame/second since the sun isn't moving very quickly.

Joe Desmond March 6th, 2006 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Khalil
I've never shot a timelapse of a sunset, but I have done shooting of sunsets for short periods of time. I would say using the ND filter would make sense - just keep in mind it'll get a lot brighter as the sunrises or dimmer as it sets. Lastly, I think you'd be fine with the timelapse setting at 1 frame/second since the sun isn't moving very quickly.

For something like someone sitting in there room, getting up, walking around, etc... To do a "time lapse of that" ...What if I just shoot continuously, say 10-15 minutes... I could just speed it up in FCP or Premiere in post couldn't I (or will it not look so nice speeding it up post??)

Andrew Khalil March 6th, 2006 06:56 PM

It'll look fine speeding it up in post, but if you want to shoot something that's longer than the tape you're using, it's better to do it in camera to avoid the gap that you'll get when changing tapes, but in some cases, the gap won't be noticable if you're speeding it up a lot.

Richard Hunter March 6th, 2006 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Desmond
For something like someone sitting in there room, getting up, walking around, etc... To do a "time lapse of that" ...What if I just shoot continuously, say 10-15 minutes... I could just speed it up in FCP or Premiere in post couldn't I (or will it not look so nice speeding it up post??)

Hi Joe. The results are usually better if you shoot continuously and then speed it up in post. This is because the frames are sampled at even intervals if you do it in post, whereas the in-camera method captures several frames in realtime and then pauses for a while, etc. (Actually, this can make a nice effect but it's not always what you want.)

However, as Andrew says, there are times when it is best to do it in camera.

Richard

Nick Weeks March 6th, 2006 11:36 PM

I did an interval recording of a sunrise at the beach a while back with my VX2100. I woke up at about 5 AM and set my camera on the tripod outside, and went back to sleep. It sat out there for 3 hours and got some decent video using the interval recording feature of the camera. Unfortunately I forgot to apply the ND filter, so it looks aweful, but you can still see how well it worked. I'll see if I can get a clip on here soon so you can see it. I think I did .5 sec every 5 minutes, but I'd have to check again to be sure.

Tony Davies-Patrick March 7th, 2006 04:00 AM

Most of the time I like to lock up the tripod and film a complete sequence of the sun setting (maybe changing between the 16X lens and a Nikkor 300mm f/2.8 to provide both scenic footage and giant red orb footage) and then speed up the sequences during editing in post.
I also find this works great for shooting footage of the moon.

I prefer to use a polorizer filter over the lens to deepen the colours and prevent too many reflections off the water, although the lower ther sun is in the sky, the less there is a need for an ND filter (depending on your set iris opening).

Some of my most stunning sequences tend to be of the setting sun sinking into a river or lake, with reflections of that deep red ball of fire spreading out across the waters.

For longer sequences such as plants or flowers opening etc, it is best to use the normal time-lapse/interval method.

Joe Desmond March 7th, 2006 02:42 PM

Cool Nick-- I'd really like to see the clip.

So I assume that if you use a filter, ND or Polarizer, there will not be damage to the CCD's or the camera in any way... What if I don't use the filter?

I'd really like to see what Nick's footage without any filter looks like...

Thanks a lot guys, very useful stuff.

Cheers.

Ash Greyson March 7th, 2006 04:36 PM

I did a some time lapse for this sports show opening on an XL1s/XL2:

http://nts001.interplug.com/profiles.mov

I have since gotten a Canon D-SLR and it is 1000 times better. I hook it to my laptop and I can take a frame per second for crystal smoother beyond HD rez time lapse. Lots of fun! You can mess with the shutter and get those great streaking headlights/etc. Easy to compose as well...



ash =o)

Joe Desmond March 7th, 2006 06:47 PM

Very impressive footage.

But wait.
Whoa.

The XL-2 with the 20x lens has a BUILT-IN ND filter?

So can I use THAT to get a good-looking sunrise??
Or...???

Confused again :)

Nick Weeks March 7th, 2006 07:04 PM

Yea, it has 2 levels... I used it on my VX2100 (can't find my tape, but I'm still looking)

I did a sunset and sunrise. The sunset doesn't look that great because I had my interval set too long and the record time was wayyy too long. It ended up very choppy. Even when I recorded a .5 second at a time it was still choppier than I wanted. If you can spare the tapes it is best to record real time and speed up later, but it all depends on how much you want to "baby" it

When/if I find my tape I'll post a clip... it's short and unimpressive, but it shows you the time lapse, and also shows why you need to use an ND filter...

Rodney Compton March 13th, 2006 12:28 PM

sunrise/sunset XL2
 
Hi Guys

Use manual exposure and ND if necessary, run tape normally, speed up 3000% in FCP. try not to get foliage in foreground if windy.

Best of Luck

Rod C

Justine Haupt March 14th, 2006 08:07 AM

I'm still not following why people are suggesting shooting in real time for a smooth time lapse... you can get just as smooth a timelapse shooting with the built in feature as you can shooting real time as long as you work it right in post.

With .5 second recording times, I can speed up the footage in Vegas 5 so that each recording period is cut down to a single frame, which obviously is as smooth as you can get... not the slightest bit of choppiness. (I think that's a 12x speed increase, shooting in 24p mode). Of course, if you want playback any slower than that this won't work, but 12x seems like a comfortable speed to me.

Am I missing something? I just don't see why anyone would ever want to shoot in realtime and/or in LP mode, unless they wanted a shorter recording interval for a less than 12x playback speed, but like I said, 12x seems pretty good.

I could probably dig up a sample if anyone want's visual confirmation :)

Joe Desmond March 14th, 2006 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Haupt
I'm still not following why people are suggesting shooting in real time for a smooth time lapse... you can get just as smooth a timelapse shooting with the built in feature as you can shooting real time as long as you work it right in post.

With .5 second recording times, I can speed up the footage in Vegas 5 so that each recording period is cut down to a single frame, which obviously is as smooth as you can get... not the slightest bit of choppiness. (I think that's a 12x speed increase, shooting in 24p mode). Of course, if you want playback any slower than that this won't work, but 12x seems like a comfortable speed to me.

Am I missing something? I just don't see why anyone would ever want to shoot in realtime and/or in LP mode, unless they wanted a shorter recording interval for a less than 12x playback speed, but like I said, 12x seems pretty good.

I could probably dig up a sample if anyone want's visual confirmation :)

Visual confirmation! :)

0.5 second recording time (every minute?)

I plan on capturing someone walking through their room doing things, so I figured shooting about 15 minutes straight and fast forwarding it in post will be better than the alternative, or still no?

Greg Boston March 14th, 2006 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson
I have since gotten a Canon D-SLR and it is 1000 times better. I hook it to my laptop and I can take a frame per second for crystal smoother beyond HD rez time lapse.

Ash,

Funny you should mention that interval. As I was reading this thread, I kept thinking about the beautiful sped up sky sequence in the Sony HD XDCAM demo movie. Yes, it was shot at 1 fps and it looked great.

-gb-

Justine Haupt March 15th, 2006 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Desmond
Visual confirmation! :)

You've got it! Sorry I uploaded as a wmv, but here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.particleproducing.com/videos/time lapse.wmv

Due to the nature of the shot it's probably not the best example (not a natural scene like a cloudscape), but you can see the sun slowly moving down the sky in the background.

Joe Desmond March 15th, 2006 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Haupt
You've got it! Sorry I uploaded as a wmv, but here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.particleproducing.com/videos/time lapse.wmv

What were your exact settings? 0.5 seconds every 1 minute?

Very nice, btw.

Declan Smith March 15th, 2006 06:47 PM

I use scenalyzer software connected to the camera and a laptop for timelapse. This gives you total control on the number & frequency of frame capture.

http://www.scenalyzer.com/

I am currently running a camera gathering 40 seconds of footage every 8 hours, monday to friday, of a garage construction.

Justine Haupt March 15th, 2006 08:00 PM

Thank you. I had .5 sec recording time with the shortest interval... is it a minute? I thought it was 30 seconds. Whichever one is shortest. And in vegas I had the velocity envelope at 300% and playback rate at 4x in properties, so a total 12x acceleration that makes for 1 frame per .5 second recording (12 frames in 1/2 sec).

Bob Thompson March 16th, 2006 04:24 PM

To get really good timelapse shots of clouds etc you need to be able to shoot one frame per sec or one frame every 2 seconds. Shooting at a 30 second interval, the clouds just move to far between shots. The only way using the XL2 is to run the camera at normal speed and speed up in post.

The alternative way is to use a digital still camera, again most camera will not shoot a frame a sec over a long period unless you connect the stills camera to a laptop. Using this method you can import the stills taken, into a editing software and get HD resolution timelapse

Ash Greyson March 16th, 2006 08:19 PM

The interval all depends... if you shoot in real time and speed up in post, you have ALL the info there to make it any speed you want. If you shoot 15 frames every 30 seconds you are missing 98.5% of the information! Super compressed time lapse wont matter but tighter shots of clocks, clouds, traffic, shadows, etc. will look terrible.

Anyone thinking about real time lapse work should consider a D-SLR... GREAT results...



ash =o)

Tony Davies-Patrick March 17th, 2006 02:29 AM

You can also use a film camera with a bulk-film back, then simply scan the images to make extremely high resolution digital files. For example, my Nikon F5 shoots at 8-frames per second.

Rodney Compton March 18th, 2006 11:00 AM

Xl2 Time Lapse
 
HI I must disagree about XL2 not doing short delay time lapse; try Btv Pro Carbon, it is A Time Lapse Application Which Is Cheap - You Set XL2 To External Control: Knob Forward - Very Easy To Use And Cheap, Has Motion Sensing As Well.

I'ts All About Control - When We Did Plants On 16mm, We Synchronised A Strobe With The Open Shutter And Got Super Sharp Stills On Each Frame.

Rod C

sorry about kingcaps i'm fighting a cold and can't be bovvered to alter them

Ash Greyson March 18th, 2006 12:00 PM

You can do that as well Rodney but you are still limited to DV resolution. If you do a lot of timelapse D-SLR is the way to go.



ash =o)

Brice LeCarre August 14th, 2006 10:41 PM

D-SLR plugged in a laptop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson
You can do that as well Rodney but you are still limited to DV resolution. If you do a lot of timelapse D-SLR is the way to go.



ash =o)

Ash
What software do you use for lapse time shooting with your D-SLR?
I have a Canon 20D and I have to do a shoot of a busy airport ramp during bank arr/dep. I also have an xl2 but I understand I'll get better results with my 20D.
Brice

Bob Thompson August 14th, 2006 10:56 PM

Has anybody tried Imovie's timelapse feature ?

I haven't tried it out in the field yet but it works OK in the office. There is not need to speed up the shot and no need to worry about running out of tape, only computer batteries.

You could do timelapse in DV 4:3 /16:9.

Ash Greyson August 15th, 2006 11:04 AM

I use a laptop with a freeware program, cant think of the name right now and dont have my laptop here. I believe you can just use the Canon software as well. You can also use the Canon remote...



ash =o)

Brice LeCarre August 15th, 2006 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson
I use a laptop with a freeware program, cant think of the name right now and dont have my laptop here. I believe you can just use the Canon software as well. You can also use the Canon remote...



ash =o)

Thanks Ash. I am going to look into it.
Brice

Scott Dreval August 15th, 2006 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson
I did a some time lapse for this sports show opening on an XL1s/XL2:

http://nts001.interplug.com/profiles.mov

I have since gotten a Canon D-SLR and it is 1000 times better. I hook it to my laptop and I can take a frame per second for crystal smoother beyond HD rez time lapse. Lots of fun! You can mess with the shutter and get those great streaking headlights/etc. Easy to compose as well...



ash =o)

Ash,

Did you do the whole sports show opening or just part of it? Also, was it all done with XL2s? I was very impressed with it.

Kelly Harmsworth September 2nd, 2006 11:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a time lapse I shot last night of some candles with my XL2

settings were .5 sec/5min

I think it looks a little jerky probably would have been better with a shorter interval

Ash Greyson September 3rd, 2006 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dreval
Ash,

Did you do the whole sports show opening or just part of it? Also, was it all done with XL2s? I was very impressed with it.


I did all of it... that open is mostly XL1s actually... My XL2 was being used too much to tie up in time lapse. I use the HVX or my 20D for all timelapse now...



ash =o)

Scott Dreval September 3rd, 2006 10:01 AM

Awesome job...

Bob Thompson September 3rd, 2006 05:35 PM

I am shooting a series of timelapses with the XL2, shooting continuously with tape (and speeding up in post) and at the same time running DV out to a Macbook which has DVTimelapse software. Using this software I am capturing at 1 frame per second.

My problem is what is the best method to set the exposure ? Do I just put the ND in and set to Automatic or what. Any help appreciated

I want to shoot from darkness to sun up

Bob

Ash Greyson September 3rd, 2006 10:26 PM

You have to use auto but shift it to UNDER expose a little...



ash =o)

Ash Greyson September 3rd, 2006 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dreval
Awesome job...


Thanks, we are actually even upgrading that open to include some NASCAR stuff and flashier graphics. The show will air next year nation wide thru syndication and several networks.



ash =o)


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