Shooting a 'bullet-proof glass' promo at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders

Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 24th, 2006, 09:00 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 68
Shooting a 'bullet-proof glass' promo

I got an offer to do it and wanted to see if you have any tips on how should I shoot it.
There will be guys shooting from pistols into the glass.
The things that I'm aiming at are shutter speed, sound (very loud), frame-rate...

Any tips welcome...
__________________
Canon 5D2 & 7D, Canon XH-A1, Senn. G2, Steadicam Merlin, Glidetrack, Sony D-50, Edius 5
Marko Urbic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 09:16 AM   #2
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
Probably no need to say this, but safety first! Of course set the camera to
record and get out of the way!

I would probably try to shoot in interlaced with something like 1/100 shutter
speed or something. You can set the audio levels manually so it might be a
good idea to dial them in low?
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 09:38 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA.
Posts: 4,356
I suggest you put another piece of glass or lexan between your camera and the armour glass being shot at to avoid any splinters coming off the back of the armour glass and chipping your camera lens or getting into the tape transport, maybe put an old towel or clean rag across the camera to keep any splinters out.
Bob Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 12:04 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 204
Just a suggestion, but is there any way to shoot with safety such that the bullet proof glass, optionally with whatever is holding it suffer recoil from the bullet hits?

Bullet hits sound pretty dull on their own, a bang, a blur of the pane being hit a few pixels wide for one frame. More impressive if you aim a cannon at it, chase the flying pane for half a mile, dig it up from the crater and show its undamaged. Even if this is scientifically less meaningful.

Perhaps by mounting the pane in a frame with springs so you get a sizable deflection after each hit?

You don't want to imply that the glass is top notch but its prone to becomeing detached from its mounting, but I'm trying to think of a way of putting the force of the impact on the tape. Maybe a large sturdy mounting for the gun, something far heavier than it really needs, and closeups of the gun to make it seem slightly bigger than it really is. Leaving significant time between shots will make each bang seem less trivial than ba-ba-ba-bang, and a 'here is one we shot 100 times into' (and then gave a good polish to) might be a good prop.
Marvin Emms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 01:02 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 68
Thanks for the tips guys, I knew I'll get good advice here.
Tomorrow I'm going to check the place where it's going to be preformed and try some audio checks to see how it's going to sound.
Also need to see how will I protect my cam and talk about Marvin's advice.

Will tell how it goes...
__________________
Canon 5D2 & 7D, Canon XH-A1, Senn. G2, Steadicam Merlin, Glidetrack, Sony D-50, Edius 5
Marko Urbic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 01:28 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 548
You really won't get to see much in the way of dramatic action, even at 60i.
The impact will take place and be done in less time that that. The slow mo shots typically shown of this kind of impact is usually shot with film cameras that have prism based shutters allowing for frame rates well in excess of 1000 frames per second.

Interestingly, here's a post on cinematography.net that appears to be dated today, with some insights:
http://www.cinematography.net/Pages%...gh%20speed.htm
__________________
Nick Jushchyshyn Matchmoving, Compositing, TD
imdb
Nick Jushchyshyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 06:00 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Napa CA USA
Posts: 33
high speed

Right, when the guys on Myth Busters film high speed things such as this, they use a special high speed camera shooting 1000 frames a second of faster. Even then you only get a few frames of the bullet in slow motion. But the effect is worth it in my oppenion. Nothing better than actually seeing the bullet bounce off the glass.

It would still be nice to see a fake person behind the glass and shoot a whole clip at him. With the glass in front of course.

For drama it would be nice to have a real person behind the glass, but for safty reasons this would not be good. However, you would maybe shot the person on green screen, then fake that they are behind the glass. These are my thoughts anyways.
Neil Fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 06:36 PM   #8
Capt. Quirk
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia
Posts: 3,596
Being the slightly disturbed person I am, I would have someone stand behind the glass in a Superman-esque pose. Someone in front of the glass empties a pistol at the guy behind the glass, then throws the gun.
__________________
www.SmokeWagonLeather.us
K. Forman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 07:54 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman
Being the slightly disturbed person I am, I would have someone stand behind the glass in a Superman-esque pose. Someone in front of the glass empties a pistol at the guy behind the glass, then throws the gun.
Then the gun breaks the glass.
Jim Michael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2006, 11:13 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Napa CA USA
Posts: 33
re

lol someone dressed as superman
Neil Fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2006, 12:15 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ontario
Posts: 445
Cool job.It should be fun.Like others have said a high speed camera would be needed to show bullet travel.Let's see 900 feet per second .... the bullet will travel 30 feet per frame and 15 feet per field so even interlaced isn't going to help you.You could try still camera with multiple flashes set to 1/10,000th and a trigger device timed up.Then in post isolate each flash shot and drop each one into a frame.
The idea of having the glass move with the shot would not be good for proving the strength of the glass, as the movement would absorb some of the energy and cause me concern that the visual wasn't an accurate depiction.It's going to move enough on it's own anyway.(mounted solid)
You could fake it in post using animation but again hokey.
How about not trying to show the bullet in slo mo at all .I don't know what the specific market for this client is but showing it in that enviroment eg. automotive window , may be a different approach.As in a car in a driveway and an assailant approaches and starts unloading on the car window,then runs away.Tell a little story of how the glass did a job.
A setup of the guy with a briefcase getting into the car and the assailant coming at him,then pulling the pistol.
Shoot some angles from the pistol, some of the glass as it's being hit( repeatedly as in emptying the clip on it), some shots of the glass after the shots, some shots of deformed bullets hitting the ground as they bounce off the glass,some shots of the deformed bullets as they lay on the ground(floor)
If the market is other then apply that situation.
Point is ,I'd rather see the product do it's job under real situations.
Just a different approach.
Jack Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2006, 02:02 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 68
Well, I'm amazed how much good ideas are people willing to share here.

It's all going to be shot in a place (don't know how you say it) where people practice shoting, so no (2pac&Biggie) drive-by shooting.
The bullet travel is out of the question, cause it's all going to be shot with an XL2.
Today I'll go chech the scene where it's going to be done and see if they really belive in their glass to put themselves behind it :)
__________________
Canon 5D2 & 7D, Canon XH-A1, Senn. G2, Steadicam Merlin, Glidetrack, Sony D-50, Edius 5
Marko Urbic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2006, 02:06 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nevada City, California
Posts: 499
Yeah, that would be good. "We Stand Behind Our Glass"
Glenn Davidson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 204
...and then Keith and Jack came along with some GOOD ideas. Throwing the gun at the end in desperation is just perfect Keith! Humor is great and that sequence cannot do anything but sell the stuff.

I fully agree Jack that a pane supported by springs is going to suffer much less of an impact, this is why I said less scientific, but I'm just thinking along the lines of an XL2 (implied) being completely unable to see the bullets and trying to think of a method where the scene won't look like the guns are firing blanks.

I'm also assuming that green screen or animation would be breaking advertising rules unless it was covered in disclaimers.

Maybe several lights in a cluster could be pointed at the glass, and the camera angled so these are visible in reflection. Then when it gets hit these reflections would dance around like crazy even with minor movements of the glass.

Edit:

A nice touch at the end might be just a mirror. Turn the mirror, or perhaps better still just backing away the camera from its sheild, show the camera itself (and by psychological implication the viewer) is being protected by the same bullet proof glass the company is selling and you've just been watching everything through it.
Marvin Emms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25th, 2006, 07:44 AM   #15
Capt. Quirk
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia
Posts: 3,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Fontaine
lol someone dressed as superman
That would be a copyrighted property... the pose, on the other hand, is up for grabs. Same as the classic throwing the empty gun at the bulletproof man. Of course, it was always funny when Superman ducks the flying gun!
__________________
www.SmokeWagonLeather.us
K. Forman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network