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Old February 3rd, 2007, 04:25 PM   #1
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Lecture/Seminar - Best Settings & Preset

We are shooting a Seminar to a conservative audience in a medium size auditorium - probably with typical overhead flouresent lighting. Our plan is to use our xl2 in 24p (not advanced) 4:3 as our main camera and our older "little" panasonic 3ccd PV-GS70 in 60i 4:3 (no other choice) for questions.
The panasonic will be up close and stationary. We have the high end Lowell Light Kit. The end product will be very visible and will be on the web and dvd. Its our first seminar and we really want to produce a first class product.

Would appreciate advice on the following:

1. Not sure - but we think mixing xl2 24p with limited close up shots from the consumer panasonic (60i) will work ok - and better than not having a second camera - which would be the alternative. Should this combination still produce good web/dvd output?

2. Does anyone have any custom xl2 presets that work well with seminars - people/speakers/well lit room?

3. We also have the 3x lense for the xl2 - but think we will need to use the 20x to get close in on the speaker. Will probably be difficult to change lens.

4. Not sure how the flouresant lighting will impact the shoot - if at all - we have a filter but have never used it.

Would appreciate any advice - including general tips on shooting a seminar?

Thanks so much!
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 06:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
We are shooting a Seminar to a conservative audience in a medium size auditorium - probably with typical overhead flouresent lighting. Our plan is to use our xl2 in 24p (not advanced) 4:3 as our main camera and our older "little" panasonic 3ccd PV-GS70 in 60i 4:3 (no other choice) for questions.
The panasonic will be up close and stationary. We have the high end Lowell Light Kit. The end product will be very visible and will be on the web and dvd. Its our first seminar and we really want to produce a first class product.

Would appreciate advice on the following:

1. Not sure - but we think mixing xl2 24p with limited close up shots from the consumer panasonic (60i) will work ok - and better than not having a second camera - which would be the alternative. Should this combination still produce good web/dvd output?

2. Does anyone have any custom xl2 presets that work well with seminars - people/speakers/well lit room?

3. We also have the 3x lense for the xl2 - but think we will need to use the 20x to get close in on the speaker. Will probably be difficult to change lens.

4. Not sure how the flouresant lighting will impact the shoot - if at all - we have a filter but have never used it.

Would appreciate any advice - including general tips on shooting a seminar?

Thanks so much!
Firstly welcome to the forums.

If you are going the digital route to dvd, I would recommend shooting 60i from your XL2, as this will simplify the capture and edit process with the other 60i camera. Dont forget to sync the two cameras with their timecodes, to aid the sync edit process.

Presets - there are quite a few at the beginning of this forum page, with the presets manager to aid programming.

3x wide angle lens - are you using the panasonic for question shots or the xl2? You state use of panasonic for questions, but then say it will be stationary and up close - I thought it would have to move around for the questions? I'm not sure what you mean here.... In any case I wouldnt take the wide angle 3x lens to the shoot - it's just too wide for a seminar and has limited zoom.

Flourescent lighting - do remember to white balance your shots. This type of lighting will cause a greenish cast to your video, so if you have the flourescent filter, I would def use it. You may still have to colour correct in post as normal for continuity etc.

From what you say, I would certainly visit the venue beforehand if possible and do several test shots. Try out the presets and see what works best for you in the given lighting conditions. Have you spoken to the venue regarding use of the lighting? Are they paying you to do this work for them? Will they allow the lighting to be positioned during the seminar? If they wont, then you may be into the realms of low light shooting - the xl2 is ok ( I have shot dark discos recently and after some post editing, they look great ) but watch the gain setting - too high and it does give an appreciable amount of grain on the final output. You do say in your post that it is a well lit room, so after a visit down there, there may be no need for the lighting rig.

Hope all goes well. Let us know when your work is on the web, it would be great to see it.

PS Forgot to mention in my original post - you need to pay close attention to colour matching the two cameras in post. Your XL2 has 3xCCDs to register the colours, one for each Primary, RGB, but your 'Consumer Panasonic' as you name it, will only have the one CCD. This will give you a noticable colour 'depth' and 'richness' between the two camera shots. Pay close attention to this in post, and do some testing beforehand to check you can get the look required in post, before the big day. Good Luck!

Cheers

Steve
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Last edited by Steve Burke; February 4th, 2007 at 06:34 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 08:30 AM   #3
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Seminar Preset and 60i

Thanks Steve - appreciate the info.

Have searched the forum and havnt found a preset for a seminar. We are apple so we dont have the preset manager - but just the settings would be helpful if anyone knows of any.

Still a little concerned about shooting with the xl2 in 60i since we will be publishing to DVD and the web. Not sure if this is correct - but somewhere I think I read that if you are mixing formats and publishing to DVD, its best to use 24p (regular - not advanced). Have you ever heard this?

Also, the little panie is actually a 3ccd PV-GS70. Our plan is to use it for close up questions and keep it stationary and well lit - since that is probably the only way to get quality footage with that camera. The drawback is that those asking questions will have to come to a fixed location. The other alternative is to pan with the xl2 for questions --- and use the panie for alternative close up shots.

Appreciate the help!

Kimberly
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Old February 4th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen

Have searched the forum and havnt found a preset for a seminar. We are apple so we dont have the preset manager - but just the settings would be helpful if anyone knows of any.Kimberly
The reasoning behind the visit to the seminar room beforehand. Presets are great to recall info at short notice, for change of shot location - eg wedding in church, photos outside door - but IMO you cannot just plug one in and go off and shoot. Someones 'Seminar' preset will not necessarily be any good for your location. Eg if you have low light you may want to adjust the KNEE to HIGH to allow more output for the given input signal, for the highlights. You may wish BLACKS to be STRETCH'd to allow more 'detail' in the shadows. If someone designs a seminar preset for well lit rooms, their KNEE will prob be NORM or LOW - ie go visit and adjust you parameters to suit the conditions, otherwise you will be dissapointed in the result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
Still a little concerned about shooting with the xl2 in 60i since we will be publishing to DVD and the web. Not sure if this is correct - but somewhere I think I read that if you are mixing formats and publishing to DVD, its best to use 24p (regular - not advanced). Have you ever heard this?
From my experience mixing interlaced and progressive footage is a no no. You would only have to downconvert. 24p will give you some motion blur in low light conditions. Please go down to the venue beforehand if this project is highly visible. It will be well worth it, trust me, from the questions you are asking. 60i is fine for output to dvd. Try a test run with 24p and see the difference for yourself. You could use anything for web output, even VHS quality, as the compression is so high, no one will ever tell the difference. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
Also, the little panie is actually a 3ccd PV-GS70. Our plan is to use it for close up questions and keep it stationary and well lit - since that is probably the only way to get quality footage with that camera. The drawback is that those asking questions will have to come to a fixed location. The other alternative is to pan with the xl2 for questions --- and use the panie for alternative close up shots.
I should have read your question more carefully - sorry - it was 1am in the morning when I answered your question :-) Both have 3ccds - but still pay close attention to the colour matching in post.

Good Luck!
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Old February 4th, 2007, 11:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen

1. Not sure - but we think mixing xl2 24p with limited close up shots from the consumer panasonic (60i) will work ok - and better than not having a second camera - which would be the alternative. Should this combination still produce good web/dvd output?

2. Does anyone have any custom xl2 presets that work well with seminars - people/speakers/well lit room?

3. We also have the 3x lense for the xl2 - but think we will need to use the 20x to get close in on the speaker. Will probably be difficult to change lens.

4. Not sure how the flouresant lighting will impact the shoot - if at all - we have a filter but have never used it.

Would appreciate any advice - including general tips on shooting a seminar?

Thanks so much!
1: I'd shoot it all interlaced, the idea of shooting multi-cam is to make the cameras look similar, not highlight their differences. It's hard to tell the difference between interlaced and progressive on your typical website playback anyhow.

2: Select the manual white balance and do a balance for each camera, alternatively select a pre-set white balance and match in post.

3: It's good for a wide shot and not much else, use the 20:1.

4: It's a manual white balance issue, somewhere around 4300k ? Light and expose for the dominant colour temperature.

General tips... I'd use the Panasonic on the speaker/lectern and set the Xl-2 up (with 20x) on the stage/podium/whatever on the same side of the line as the Panny. Make sure you can see all the question makers, if possible identify them in advance, if not make an announcment beforehand encouraging them to stand up when they ask the question, that way you'll find them easier.

It should be easier if they come to a pre-set and pre-lit position to ask questions but seminars don't always work that way, whatever happens you need to rely on the experience of your camera crew and enjoy some good luck.

All the best...
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Last edited by Allen McLaughlin; February 4th, 2007 at 12:11 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 12:11 PM   #6
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Preset Number Conversion

Great information!

We are Mac (Bluebarn is not Mac compatible) and opened the custom preset files posted br Chris Hurd in a text editor. Numbers are used where Canon uses a specific name: ie: for Gama Canon uses either Normal or Cine. The "Routine" preset posted by Chris uses Gama =1. We assume that 1 means the first choice in the menu which in this case is Normal. Is this the right way to interpert the numbers in the custom preset files?

Thanks again.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
Great information!

We are Mac (Bluebarn is not Mac compatible) and opened the custom preset files posted br Chris Hurd in a text editor. Numbers are used where Canon uses a specific name: ie: for Gama Canon uses either Normal or Cine. The "Routine" preset posted by Chris uses Gama =1. We assume that 1 means the first choice in the menu which in this case is Normal. Is this the right way to interpert the numbers in the custom preset files?

Thanks again.
To be honest Kimberly, I don't understand the need for a pre-set ? Every location is different and all pre-sets do is afford you a certain look. For a semiar I think you should be shooting clean, unadulterated footage as interlaced full frame stock.

You can always 'de-interlace' the final product in post, but I rarely find there's a demand for that kind of thing under these circumstances, unless you're treating it as a documentary look ?

Just my two cents worth... ?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 03:05 PM   #8
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Preset Number Conversion

Steve - Good point about the preset. We will get there the day before and determine whats best given the lighting. Also, I guess we will go with the 60i to match the panny. Everything we have shot so far with the xl2 has been 24p - which I am in love with! Steve - thanks again for all your help!

Still would like to find out about the conversion for other venues. Does anyone know how the preset numbers correspond to what is actually on the canon display?

We are Mac (Bluebarn is not Mac compatible) and opened the custom preset files posted br Chris Hurd in a text editor. Numbers are used where Canon uses a specific name: ie: for Gama Canon uses either Normal or Cine. The "Routine" preset posted by Chris uses Gama =1. We assume that 1 means the first choice in the menu which in this case is Normal. Is this the right way to interpert the numbers in the custom preset files?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 04:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
Steve - Good point about the preset. We will get there the day before and determine whats best given the lighting. Also, I guess we will go with the 60i to match the panny. Everything we have shot so far with the xl2 has been 24p - which I am in love with! Steve - thanks again for all your help!
You are very welcome. 24p is great from the xl2 - but is really used for a cinematic look, or if you were transferring to film stock. Dvd is almost always shot at interlaced. Anything is ok for the web :-). I'm pleased you are going beforehand - it will help build the confidence for the day. I ALWAYS go to every venue beforehand, even if i have been there before.... 1) You get to meet the people eg vicar at church / seminar organisers. If it's the same vicar you get chance to say hello again, or if its a new kid on the block, he may have different rules. Get them on your side and you are well away. 2) You get to negotiate the best positions for the cameras - better than been told 'no' on the day, then having to run around and try to negotiate the next best camera position. They will be focussed on their jobs on the day and will have little time for you, which is understandable. 3) Once positions established, stay and experiment with the settings. Note them down so you know what you are watching when you get back home... or speak them onto the tape if you prefer. Pick the best one and program it as a preset. DO NOT change presets on the day otherwise it will be a nightmare to sort in post after the event. Light the event as it will be on the day. If natural sunlight will be present try going roughly the same time of day as the shoot to get similar lighting conditions ( providing the sun stays out/in on both days!! :-) )
Remember the 6 P's..... Perfect Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance... :-) Hope this doesnt offend anyone, as none intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
Still would like to find out about the conversion for other venues. Does anyone know how the preset numbers correspond to what is actually on the canon display?

Numbers are used where Canon uses a specific name: ie: for Gama Canon uses either Normal or Cine. The "Routine" preset posted by Chris uses Gama =1. We assume that 1 means the first choice in the menu which in this case is Normal. Is this the right way to interpert the numbers in the custom preset files?
Yes, you are correct in this assumption, but as Allen and myself have said, presets are of little use between venues. You cannot just plug one in and expect a first class production. they have their uses - like shooting a wedding recessional and then dashing outside and filming the B&G coming out of the church - two sets of different conditions that you have prejudged. Of course there are other conditions to set too.... White Balance, Iris exposure, Focus etc.

I do wish you the very best with your shoot. Hope to see a link to your production on the web.

Cheers

Steve
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Old February 4th, 2007, 05:54 PM   #10
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Seminar Shoot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberly Jansen
We are shooting a Seminar to a conservative audience in a medium size auditorium - probably with typical overhead flouresent lighting. Our plan is to use our xl2 in 24p (not advanced) 4:3 as our main camera and our older "little" panasonic 3ccd PV-GS70 in 60i 4:3 (no other choice) for questions.
The panasonic will be up close and stationary. We have the high end Lowell Light Kit. The end product will be very visible and will be on the web and dvd. Its our first seminar and we really want to produce a first class product.
Hi Kimberly,

Are you okay on the lighting? Softboxes, umbrellas, diffusion to soften the Totas? If the participants wear glasses, will your lights reflect off of them? And as others have said, you're going to need to contend with different color balance between the XL2 and the Panasonic in post - too bad you can't borrow or rent a second XL2 but you'll get by okay. It sounds like you're going to rely on your Panasonic for a locked down medium shot of all seminar participants and will use the XL2 for all the dynamic camera shooting (I would have guessed you'd go the other way)

***
1. Not sure - but we think mixing xl2 24p with limited close up shots from the consumer panasonic (60i) will work ok - and better than not having a second camera - which would be the alternative. Should this combination still produce good web/dvd output?
***

I agree with the other posters - best not to mix here, and for this type of shoot you won't get a 24P cinema benefit anyway.

***
2. Does anyone have any custom xl2 presets that work well with seminars - people/speakers/well lit room?
***

I'd keep things normal and just adjust based on the mix of flouresents and your Lowell tungstens. If you care to get a bit exotic, you could white balance on a "warm card" rather than tweak things in post

***
3. We also have the 3x lense for the xl2 - but think we will need to use the 20x to get close in on the speaker. Will probably be difficult to change lens.
***

The 3X is great for tight shots but I doubt the seminar participants will be all that close together. However, if you have a 3X tight for podium shots and 20X for wide shots, that would work nicely. Assumedly since you're Panasonic is the primary, you don't need to capture every second with the XL2 and could flip lens on the fly. If so, I'm all for you getting as many ECU, CU, medium, wide, extra wide, rack, POV (towards audience), dutch, high, low, you-name-it shots as possible with the XL2. In post, you can really make things interesting with enough B roll and establishment shots. The key in post is caffeine <wink> Oh yeah, you'll want both the tripod and a probably a monopod or at least a steady stick for all the dynamic XL2 shots.

***
4. Not sure how the flouresant lighting will impact the shoot - if at all - we have a filter but have never used it.
***

So are you saying you're afraid your Lowell kit will be overpowered by the flouresents? Sounds like you better spend sufficient pre-shoot time to get a handle on this. The Lowell color temperature is 3200 degrees Kelvin (orange or warm), less if you use a dimmer. A flourescent might be 2900k, 3200k, or 5500k (typically green or magenta color) depending on the tube. I assume your Lowells will provide key and most of the fill, with flourescents as background lights. Anyway, assuming your Lowells are the primary lights, just be sure your shutter speed doesn't cause a strobing affect with the flourescent bulbs.

***
Would appreciate any advice - including general tips on shooting a seminar?
Thanks so much!
***

Interesting, none of the above would be my principle areas of concern. When it's all said and done, for a seminar it's the quality of the audio that will make or break your DVD and webinar. I'd be spending at least as much effort on audio as my video concerns, AND have backup mics and recorders at the seminar table/s. If you're taping into the auditorium mixer board, be sure you've triple-checked the mixer board and REALLY trust the audio engineer not to touch anything the day of the shoot (nothing like distortion or power hum to ruin the audio). And hopefully if you're relying on house gear, it's truly high-quality gear and everyone really knows how to use it (you too, especially level, balance and impedence issues). But many are still not into seminar production audio engineering and won't have a high-quality wireless lavalier mic to quickly give to the audience when they have a question. And this means the audio engineer (maybe you?) needs to ensure the master of ceremony instructs both the seminar guests and audience the proper protocol of getting the mic before asking a question... and mandates this protocol during actual audience questions. I could go on about capturing ambient background audio before the session, etc. but hopefully you get the idea - the quality of the audio is critical. Give a pro enough B roll and still photos with great audio, and they could make a great production without any seminar video at all! (it's often not the most exciting stuff with a limited two camera shoot). On that note, remember to take a ton of B roll and establishment shots for post.

Good luck, Michael
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