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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old October 25th, 2007, 08:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Dean View Post
I'd like to see... all camera manufacturers start bundling their cameras with archive solutions.
I would not like to see that, and it's not likely to happen anyway. The archive solution should be my own decision to make, not the manufacturer's. Why should I have to pay for a bundle component that I might not want to use?
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:38 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
I would not like to see that, and it's not likely to happen anyway. The archive solution should be my own decision to make, not the manufacturer's. Why should I have to pay for a bundle component that I might not want to use?
I'll rephrase...I'd like to see camera manufacturers suggest or even recommend archive solutions. Right now, archiving is an after thought.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 12:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
The advantage of the FireStore recorder included with Canon's promotion is that you don't have to abandon tape. The ideal workflow here is to simultaneously record both to tape and to the FireStore. That way you've got the best of both worlds... an instant archive / backup on tape plus an edit-ready version on the FireStore that doesn't have to be captured. In other words, use the FireStore but keep on using tape as well.
I've been preaching the gospel about the FS-C for some time now. It's really an underappreciated product, IMHO. (at least for Canon users)

It IS the best of both worlds, and it takes care of a BIG issue that FCP users had with Firestores in that it records the HDV stream as a FCP-native HDV QT file, (not just .m2t or DV) and supports the frame modes too. (24F is recorded as HDV 1080 24p QT)

You can record to tape and to the FS-C simultaneously and enjoy true instant editing after acquisition. (just plug in the FS-C and drag/drop your clips to the appropriate NLE bin) It's also very fast at copying the raw clips to a designated media drive if you feel skittish about using the FS-C as a media drive. I usually could copy an hours worth of footage in less than 10 minutes.

It's truly a wonderful thing to get back from a shoot and be ready to edit with no dog-slow tape digitizing process, yet you can take comfort in putting away your tapes for the archive.

I've tested batch recapture by deleting Firestore clips and doing automated recaps from tape and had no problems.

The only issue I have with the FS-C is that the stock battery isn't nearly enough. It only lasted for about an hour of real capture time. Adding a second, higher capacity battery is an absolute must with the product.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 12:36 PM   #19
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Does it works with Final Cut Express 3.5?
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Old October 25th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #20
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David Newman of Cineform made a teasing comment the other day about the possibility of a Firestore like device that stores in Cineform format.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=106138

" What you really want is a FireStore like device with 1920x1080 10-bit CineForm compression that takes HMDI, HDSDI or component feeds, records to flash or notebook drive and runs on cheap Li-on batteries with couple hours of record time--correct? Interested in pre-ordering? ;) "

Now that sounds HOT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlow Elton View Post
I've been preaching the gospel about the FS-C for some time now. It's really an underappreciated product, IMHO. (at least for Canon users)

It IS the best of both worlds, and it takes care of a BIG issue that FCP users had with Firestores in that it records the HDV stream as a FCP-native HDV QT file, (not just .m2t or DV) and supports the frame modes too. (24F is recorded as HDV 1080 24p QT)

You can record to tape and to the FS-C simultaneously and enjoy true instant editing after acquisition. (just plug in the FS-C and drag/drop your clips to the appropriate NLE bin) It's also very fast at copying the raw clips to a designated media drive if you feel skittish about using the FS-C as a media drive. I usually could copy an hours worth of footage in less than 10 minutes.

It's truly a wonderful thing to get back from a shoot and be ready to edit with no dog-slow tape digitizing process, yet you can take comfort in putting away your tapes for the archive.

I've tested batch recapture by deleting Firestore clips and doing automated recaps from tape and had no problems.

The only issue I have with the FS-C is that the stock battery isn't nearly enough. It only lasted for about an hour of real capture time. Adding a second, higher capacity battery is an absolute must with the product.
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Old October 26th, 2007, 04:44 AM   #21
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Surely the likes of the Sony EX camera will help drive down the price of HDD recorders like the Firestore. This can only be a good thing for me, since as much as i would like the convenience of the firestore, i just can't justify the price. I really wish Bella would get their act together & release their version "Catapult" At the price they were talking about, i would certainly go the way of a HDD recorder, & be loving the fact that i would always have a tape backup!

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Old October 29th, 2007, 01:03 PM   #22
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Is there any chance that Canon UK will follow suit and extend the offer to purchasers in Britain?
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Old October 29th, 2007, 02:47 PM   #23
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It's hard to say.
Since I think this is an atempt to dump the remaining hi invatory, it would depend on how many pal cameras are still in stock.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 03:37 PM   #24
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One More Thing

Richard,
one more thing. What about ordering one from the states, then take it to a canon service center and have them update the firmware so that it can shoot in the pal format as well.
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Old October 31st, 2007, 04:16 AM   #25
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Darrell,

The problem is I would rather buy from a UK registered dealer, as:

1.
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Old October 31st, 2007, 05:05 AM   #26
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Oops, I sent the last one prematurely!

continued: I'd prefer to buy from a bona fide British dealer as:

1. I've got someone accessible to see in any case of post sale problems,

2. Guernsey is not in the EU or actually part of the UK, we are a crown protectorate and are not subject to paying VAT (sales tax).

3. I don't ever see the need to film in NTSC (the quality is inferior to the PAL system).

It would be nice to have the special offers in Britain that you enjoy in the US though.

Regards,

Richard.

Canon XM1, XL2, HV20, Nikon SLR's etc.
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Old October 31st, 2007, 12:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Richard Rouillard View Post
3. I don't ever see the need to film in NTSC (the quality is inferior to the PAL system)
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that only apply to SD and not HD video?
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:02 AM   #28
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The firestore would be NTSC so thatīs a problem in it self.
I just realized this when I wanted to buy one here second hand
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Old November 23rd, 2007, 03:45 AM   #29
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.... A very good deal for the buyers of the XL and a smart way to stir the pot and remind any potential buyer of the Sony Ex that Canon is also offering a tapeless option (with the advantage of tape back up as Chris mentiooned.)
The EX is half inch CMOS chip though...if they produce a version with interchangeable lenses I would be rather excited!

You can always dump the footage to tape for archive anyway.

Will Canon's next offering be 1/2"???
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Old November 27th, 2007, 02:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Eric Muehling View Post
Before you embrace solid-state video recording, consider how you'll store your valuable source video data (footage) after shooting.

A 60-minute MiniDV tape will hold approximately 13 Gigabytes of data (3.6 Megabytes per second)." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV).

Here's why I won't abandon tape:

1) I have a 500GB hard drive. This drive wouldn't hold all my raw "footage" if I had to copy it all from MiniDV tape to disc. It's filling up now with edited scenes and compressed final projects.
2) MiniDV tapes are easy to organize on a shelf. They're cheap.
3) Loss due to fire/theft is the primary risk I see for MiniDV tapes, but this is equally true for a hard drive.
4) Hard drives eventually fail. Would you loose everything if this happened? I won't take this risk. I have a 2TB hard drive and I back up everything.

I will use MiniDV tape as an archive for all original footage, and the hard drive for working with copies and for non-linear editing.
I see your points, but the cost argument is getting less and less compelling.

I can get an internal 750 gig WD drive from newegg for $150. That's 20 cents per gigabyte. You'd have to be using $2.60 cent 60 minute MiniDV tapes to match that.

(Granted, external HD's are more expensive, but they still equal about $4 MiniDV tapes... if my math serves me correctly ;))
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