pulldown method at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 13th, 2007, 03:44 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Forest Ranch, CA
Posts: 106
pulldown method

hi guys, I've been searching the threads and it seems that over time the answer to this question keeps changing. so here it is.
we begin shooting a full length movie next month. What is the most practical / versital pulldown method to use for the xl-h1? will one of the methods stop us dead in our tracks when it comes to editing or film transfer.
If it's going to film and/or dvd what's the happy medium? I need to get my settings right before we start for obvious reasons.
question 2: i've read that you retain more resolution shooting 60i and then converting to 24p than if you shoot in the 24f mode to begin with. I can see more detail playing back 60i but i'm afraid i won't be able to create a film-like look shooting in 60i. I should mention i'm also using the redrock since i mentioned "filmlike". what settings would/have you used and why? thanks
Joe Batt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 10:18 AM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: kelseyville, ca
Posts: 123
Try this. If anybody should know, he should.
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials.html?id=41
Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES
__________________
darrell
Darrell Essex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 12:07 PM   #3
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
People vary in their opinions about this, but many of us don't believe one can consistently produce better 24 fps motion pictures from the H1's 60i than you get just using 24F to start with.

Try whatever tools you're interested in and compare the results. I suspect that all you'll find is that you're trading one or another type of subtle artifacting for the slightly, usually imperceptible, decrease in static resolution of F-Mode vs the H1's 60i.

To me it is definitely not worth the effort, but I'm not shooting a feature film. For you, if all that extra work and time turns out an image you like slightly better for a major project, go for it. If you decide to use 60i and pulldown tools, please do share your experiences with us.
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 02:16 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Batt View Post
hi guys, I've been searching the threads and it seems that over time the answer to this question keeps changing. so here it is.
we begin shooting a full length movie next month. What is the most practical / versital pulldown method to use for the xl-h1? will one of the methods stop us dead in our tracks when it comes to editing or film transfer.
If it's going to film and/or dvd what's the happy medium? I need to get my settings right before we start for obvious reasons.
question 2: i've read that you retain more resolution shooting 60i and then converting to 24p than if you shoot in the 24f mode to begin with. I can see more detail playing back 60i but i'm afraid i won't be able to create a film-like look shooting in 60i. I should mention i'm also using the redrock since i mentioned "filmlike". what settings would/have you used and why? thanks

Definitely stay in 24F. It will give you the exact same motion cadence as film (when used with w 1/48 shutter). Tests have revealed a resolution decrease, but the question is is it really perceptible ... I had my XL-H1 hooked up to a $30,000 cinetal monitor alongside the Sony EX 1 both via HD-SDI and both in their 1080p24 modes (thanks AbelCineTech!) ... there was a minimal difference in resolution and that was with the cam in 24F. I don't know what Canon does with their F mode creation, but the final image looks perceptually as sharp as its 60i, so I wouldn't worry much.

For a large scale project like a feature, shooting in 24F is so much easier workflow wise and will provide you with just as sharp footage. There is much more to worry about during production ... no need to add extra workflow that isn't needed.

Also, FYI - 24F is layed as 24P onto tape without any pulldown ... that is one reasone why only Canon cameras can play it back. It is their own semi-proprietary HDV format.

If you need examples of the H1 in 24F, I have some on my website you can check out. I have some clips from a shoot24F using the P+S Technik mini35 w/ Zeiss Superspeed CinePrimes captured live via HD-SDI uncompressed. It shows what the camera is capable off ... suffice to say, there were no sharpness issues :)
Michael Galvan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2007, 10:29 AM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Poulsbo, WA
Posts: 104
I shot a feature this past August with my H1 all in 24f. Everybody has been stunned with the footage and are extremely pleased with the results. I don't have any footage yet, but I have seen it and the 24f looks great.
__________________
Walk in the light.
www.barrygregg.us
Barry Gregg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2008, 05:38 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Forest Ranch, CA
Posts: 106
thanks for the input. very helpful advice.
Joe Batt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2008, 07:30 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 249
the 24f is a great looking format.
I had posted some footage from a previous post...

check it out if you can..

Paste this into your browser:

ftp://68.83.117.113
user: canondemo
password: xlh1

Drag the movie to your desktop...


There are some shot to shot scenes of 24f and 60i.
__________________
Shooting Video since 1/2" EIAJ reel to reel and editing on 2" QUAD machines.
http://www.takeoneprod.com
Kevin Martorana is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network