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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old December 23rd, 2007, 03:54 PM   #31
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IMHO I think larger sensors is the only way to the future. And is the 3CCD technique the right way..?

Otherwise a increase of the resolution and overcrank possibilties or up to 60-100 fps (progressive) should come in handy.
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Old December 25th, 2007, 12:24 AM   #32
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4 things that will make this a top seller!

1. 3 1/2" ccd chips (increase low light, lattitude and DOF)
2. 4:2:2 at 1920x1080p using express cards
3. optional PL Mount film lens adapter (like the JVC HZ-CA13U)
4. in menu image flip
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Old December 25th, 2007, 01:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jonas Nystrom View Post
And is the 3CCD technique the right way..?
Share same kind of view as Jonas. I suspect Canon will go the CMOS sensors and introduce a camera which has the standard EF-mount and come up with some special solution for the wide angle end. Maybe they can exploit the new sensors of their EOS-bodies and run them at the rate of 24-30 fps. Have you seen (the SD) video footages from the new Canon IXUS cameras? (They are pretty amazing when put aside with old XL-1 and XL-1s footages.) All this may well suggest 3CCD is fading out.

The fact that Canon has not introduced new lenses to the XL series may also indicate it's coming to the end of line. CMOS-sensor makes the lenses cheaper, so perhaps Canon doesn't even have an alternative. Furthermore, I think HDV is already water under the bridge from the manufacturers point of view.
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Old December 26th, 2007, 03:24 PM   #34
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Also, if the camera recorded to drive and memory sticks, then 10-bit or 12-bit color would be a great bonus over the competition.
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Old December 27th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #35
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Manual Lens would be nice
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Old December 27th, 2007, 08:33 PM   #36
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You guys think small!

How 'bout a Canon 1DS that shoots 60fps and has xlr audio with no clipping?

Now we're talking!

Actually, I'd like a more balanced shoulder mount cam that takes standard ENG lenses. And records to SD cards and tape at the same time in different resolutions... the new Sony that takes tape and CF cards sounds like a great thing to me!
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Old December 28th, 2007, 01:31 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Chuck Fadely View Post
You guys think small!

How 'bout a Canon 1DS that shoots 60fps and has xlr audio with no clipping?

Now we're talking!

Actually, I'd like a more balanced shoulder mount cam that takes standard ENG lenses. And records to SD cards and tape at the same time in different resolutions... the new Sony that takes tape and CF cards sounds like a great thing to me!
That would pretty much be called the REDONE. LOL!

But hey, Canon's got all the equipment and technology right there at their fingertips. If they wanted to build a RED competitor, they could. They only need to figure out how to move that much data around at those rates. If a team of a dozen or so uber-nerds in Irvine can figure it out, I'm sure Canon could too.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
<EDIT>
Just saying, it's okay to dream big but I'm willing to bet that they stick with third-inch in order to keep the XL line, <EDIT>.
I hear you Chris, but FWIW, Canon amazingly listened very closely last time around when they asked for suggestions to upgrade the XL2. IF Canon checks those old posts, they will see that I suggested at that time Canon take two paths.

The first path I suggested back then was "evolutionary" upgrade and is the XL-H1 that is out now; 1/3rd inch chips, HDSDI out, timecode in/out, genlock and selectable viewfinder 'wireframe' aspect ratios, ability to
still able to work with Canon 35mm EOS lens and their EOS adapter.
(And yes I will take the credit for being the only guy asking for HDSDI, although I was called crazy by many.) The H1 has most everything I asked for with the exception of progressive CCDs and a great LCD, so . . .

I strongly believe the next step for Canon is the REVOLUTIONARY camera
I asked for back then. Essentially, they have been beaten to the market by Jim Jannard and Team Red, but Canon is a big time contender and I would love to see them in the 35mm glass competition.

Back then I asked for a single CMOS chip camcorder capable of using Canon 35 MM lens *natively*. I also asked for a high definition LCD or viewfinder (current H1 needs MUCH improvement!).

Two years ago I thought 1080P was a much resolution as I would ever need. After seeing the Peter Jackson short, I was mistaken. 4K is totally amazing.
If Canon's XL-SHD1 (super hi def) could output a variety of video formats including 4K RAW and 4:4:4 1080P, imbed audio and timecode in the stream HDSDI and get a real 1920x1200 pixel LCD, they would sell a lot of cameras and blow away the Sony EX1.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 12:21 PM   #39
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over/under-craking.

35mm eos mount similar to JVC's 16m mount.

better latitude with the images.

better LCD.

that's it :)
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Old March 4th, 2008, 01:12 AM   #40
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Will we see this for NAB

Anyone think we could see a possible NAB release? There doesn't seem to be much talk of this, but I can wish.

Also, I second Jonas' idea of shooting up to 100 fps progressive. How amazing would that be!
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Old March 4th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #41
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ND filters built in to the camera body similar to the JVC, this will allow better exposure control with EF lenses & also no need to carry ND filters
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Old March 4th, 2008, 08:20 AM   #42
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My wishlist would consist of -

- Inbuilt CF writers x 2
- AVCIntra @ 25 or 50mbps
- Realtime HDV recording to tape (ie have 2 encoders within the cam, AVC for CF or HDV for tape recording at the same time for backup)
- Camera supplied with a Canon EF adapter
- More lens options for native HD Video acquisition (ie choice of zooms or primes, inbuilt stabilisers, auto functions etc etc)
- CCD stabiliser, as opposed to a stabiliser in the lens. This is seen in the Sony Alpha DSLRs, but obviously it wont be as effective as a lens OIS, but at least we can stabilse shots irresepective of the lens we choose
- For the A1/G1, a larger or "twin" LCD panel. Basically 2 panels set up much like a Nintendo DS. The top panel has our camera and shot settings, the lower panel has an uncluttered view of our shot. The top panel only has to be 320x240, as its only basic text data, so res isnt an issue. The res however can be squeezed into the second panel ;)
- Simultaneous XLR and internal mic recording
- XLR to inbuilt mic switching without going into a menu (How about a custom button for this?)
- Twin DigicII or DigicIII processors (as seen on their DSLRs)
- DSLR I-AF focus settings via joystick near the record on/off button. Much like the Canon DSLRs where you can select a focus point by shifting the joystick, give us this same option for video with a grid overlay of teh focal point selected.
Better yet, offer a touch screen LCD panel which can be allocated to a focus command ;)
As an example, allow us to "swipe" our finger across the screen to create a rack focus effect
- For the A1/G1 remove the standby slider from the record button.
- For A1/G1, remove the big mode wheel and replace it with instant access buttons.
As it stands, the wheel is a waste precious real estate. I'd rather have had a dial like the DSLR dials where the LCD locks into place atop the camera under the handle. A dial here or a sliding switch would have been perfect.
Then where the mode wheel lives now, have a side flipping LCD panel at 3+ inches. This would make the camera behave like a DVX, but hey, if it works...
This initial LCD lock down and mode wheel was a bad design IMO as to access WB and Mic attenuator, you MUST move the LCD panel from its home.
These buttons could have been accessed from the side of the camera without the need to molest the position of the LCD.
Less movement, means less shake during filming.
- For A1 a larger more accurate EVF with proper sunshade eyecup, which is calibrated to mirror the LCD panel. This way the image on the EVF is identical to the LCD without the need to tweak.
As it stands, its virtually impossible to have your EVF identical to the LCD
- Zebras running alongside peaking
- Peaking colour options which track the focal distance, as found in the JVC and Sony EX units. ie focal point is tracked by a different colour
- Exposure by numbers OR by light meter. give us this option
- Exposure by centred, left or right weighted average (as found in the DSLRs) This will ensure that hotspots are recognised irrespective of the position and included wthin the exposure reading, as opposed to only using a centre point which isn't always accurate with tight frames.
- LCD set to "what you see is what you get"
- An inbuilt painkiller dispenser ;)
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Old March 4th, 2008, 03:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David G. Burt View Post
ND filters built in to the camera body similar to the JVC, this will allow better exposure control with EF lenses & also no need to carry ND filters

Good point! It would be great for those of us using EF lenses.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jacques Mersereau View Post
... If Canon's XL-SHD1 (super hi def) could output a variety of video formats including 4K RAW and 4:4:4 1080P, imbed audio and timecode in the stream HDSDI and get a real 1920x1200 pixel LCD, they would sell a lot of cameras and blow away the Sony EX1.
I'm not sure if this is true. Wouldn't recording and editing 4K RAW or 4:4:4 require significant upgrades to NLE software and hardware in many cases?

I'd LOVE to have a RED, but I don't know how the heck I could actually use 4K. Perhaps it's not as difficult as I'm making it out to be, but I think it is.

Last edited by Peter Moretti; March 4th, 2008 at 05:57 PM.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 01:25 AM   #45
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I've been such a fan of Canon...but have to admit they are losing me soon as a customer. We have the H1, A1 & HV10.

The main reason I'm leaving the line is that I feel they are truly stuck in the prosumer realm and have not made an effort to move into the "Pro" world. That's fine, but I guess I have to move on.

For example, it's inexplicable to me that they came out with a nearly $10,000 camera with 24F with no compatible deck. I thought it was around the corner...surely the best solution is NOT to buy an HV10, like we did. A couple years later and that's still the best solution. Hardly pro.

The other one, as other have said, is the LCD. It's just crazy that you miss about 5% of your picture. Very non-pro, in my opinion to not have underscan that will show you the boom mic in your frame.

Another gripe is that they gave embedded audio in the little brother G1, right after I paid MORE for the H1. They really should have done something for existing customers for this, I think, or waited on shipping the H1 until it had embedded audio.

Sorry for the rant...we still use our H1 and LOVE the picture. But these things have really pushed me away. We have a RED on order (#2100ish), but for longer form event stuff, I may make the move to the new SONY HDV cameras. Can't wait for NAB this year.
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