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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old May 4th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
Of course there is no such stipulation. The 6x HD lens was released after the XL H1. Who is to say there won't be another lens (hopefully a manual one) coming sometime later on after the H1S and H1A.
Naturally I'd be concerned that Canon would design newer lenses to take advantage of the H1S/A design only and maybe be crippled on the H1 too, if really even compatible at all. Just a concern.

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
I'm having a hard time understanding why that isn't a viable option, and I disagree with your estimate of the value of a used H1. I think it's closer to $5,000 or $6,000.
How long does it take to make this stuff pay for itself anyway?
Prior to the announcement of the H1A it might have been worth $5k but I have serious concerns regarding getting that out of it now. Heck, I wouldn't pay $5k when I could get the newer model for $1000 more, minus the SDI stuff which I don't generally need anyway,

Regardless, let's just agree to disagree. I still think I'd like more lens options down the road for "all" H1 series cameras. And if Canon introduces a higher res LCD for only the newer models.....ay caramba!

Peace.

By the way, I make a fulltime wage producing motion graphics for my employer so my videography business is part-time and it takes me a while to pay for my cameras. It doesn't pay for itself in 6 months so honestly, just selling my current camera and coming up with the difference isn't quite as easy as you make it sound. Could I get away with a cheaper camera? An A1 perhaps and be more profitable? Probably. Ergonomically I just love the H1 over the smaller cams and when the camera feels good in your hands you make better movies.

Still some of us do just enough business to justify buying the equipment so that we can support our independent film aspirations.....which will not obviously be profitable unless you really hit it big!
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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:04 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
Dear Marty,

It is my understanding that the optical elements (glass) of the new XL H1s lens are the same as the original XL H1 lens.
If this is true then any interest I had has seriously diminished anyway. The 6x glass seems far superior to the original 20x so I was thinking it might be like that.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #168
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I wish Canon would sell the XL-H1a (or XL-H1s) body without a stock lens. I like the upgrades this new lens got, especially the aperture on the lens body, but I still find it a bit lacking with the aperture when zoomed in (f/1.6 beats f/3.5 anytime for good DoF without a LetusXL). Since it doesn't do constant f/1.6 throughout its zoom range, i'd rather still shoot full manual with my Canon 14x. I heard it holds pretty well on an XL-H1, so that's why a body-only upgrade would be nice from Canon (I think they sold the XL2 like that for a while).

It would be quite a feat for a 20x lens to get a constant aperture though, but since it's the same optic formulas I guess we won't see that until another lens. Maybe. Ah, I can dream, can I?

Would cost a hell of a lot more than 2,000 bucks though I'm pretty sure :-)

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Old May 6th, 2008, 09:31 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Gabriel Berube View Post
I wish Canon would sell the XL-H1a (or XL-H1s) body without a stock lens.
Hey Gabriel,

You should check www.zgc.com

They have sold (and still do) the XL-H1 both as a body only and with the 6x Wide.

I'm sure they will do something similar for the new cameras once they come out.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Gabriel Berube View Post
It would be quite a feat for a 20x lens to get a constant aperture though, but since it's the same optic formulas I guess we won't see that until another lens.
Quite true. A 20x that could hold f/1.6 throughout the zoom range would be a pretty nifty bit of optical design, and would cost a lot more. The fact that the Canon 16x and 14x manual lenses can hold their maximum apertures is one of their most under-appreciated features, IMO. Both lenses are really great bargains for what you get out of them--especially the 14x, which can go for as little as $500 or $600 if you can find one (I'm pretty excited to have one on the way to me right now--thanks, Lorinda). Now if Canon would only design a similar lens especially for HD... :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Galvan
You should check www.zgc.com

They have sold (and still do) the XL-H1 both as a body only and with the 6x Wide.
This is a very good point, and should answer at least some of the concerns that have been discussed above.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley View Post
The fact that the Canon 16x and 14x manual lenses can hold their maximum apertures is one of their most under-appreciated features, IMO.
The 16x is f/2.6 at full telephoto.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Daniel Browning View Post
16x is f/2.6 at full telephoto.
I was talking about the 16x manual lens, not the IS II auto lens that originally shipped with the XL1s. You'll see even at that same link that the 16x manual is f/1.6 throughout the zoom range.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:43 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley View Post
I was talking about the 16x manual lens, not the IS II auto lens that originally shipped with the XL1s. You'll see even at that same link that the 16x manual is f/1.6 throughout the zoom range.
You're right. Thanks for the correction.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 01:43 PM   #174
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Man, thanks for the link Michael! I went to ZGC's online store a couple of times over the last month, why didn't I see that before?

I'll be sure to check 'em out for the XL-H1a or XL-H1s body once they're out this summer. If Canon won't do it, I hope they will! :-)
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Old May 6th, 2008, 03:46 PM   #175
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I think we can safely assume that the Canon's next lens will be a manual HD lens. Canon has seen that Sony's manual lens on the EX1 (sort of manual) had received a very warm welcome. The new 20X lens also indicates that Canon is aware of that, and it is also what the Canon rep said in the FreshDV interview. People want more manual control. I also think the new redesigned 20x lens indicates that Canon will stick with 1/3" for a little bit longer. Either that or a XL-H1 with 1/2" chips and a EX1 type lens. Time will tell.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #176
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Dear Floris,

At NAB, I had a XL H1s in our Convergent-Design area of the Canon Booth.

I was very impressed with the new lens. I realize that it is not a full manual lens, but it does feel like one. It responds like one. And the way it responds is adjustable.

I showed it to hundreds of professionals who came by the booth and the consensus was that it was very impressive. I encouraged our guests to operate it to get a feel of the new lens.

As you are aware, you can zoom, focus, and change the iris simulaneously (if you have enough fingers). This lens is a significant improvement over the original lens.

A full manual lens will (of course) not have auto-focus, nor image stabilization. In exchange, the full manual lens will have fewer elements and be less complex.

There are times when a full manual lens is nice. We are currently shooting a movie using a JVC camera with a full manual lens. We spend a significant amount of time trying to ensure that the scene is in focus. Even then, our camera operator does not always get it "Tack Sharp".

Compare this to the XL H1s lens or to the XL H1 lens. You can achieve great focus at the touch of a button.

In other scenes we operated the JVC camera handheld. Having image stabilization as one of your options is certain nice.

Please do not get me wrong. A full manual lens has its advantages at times. And there are many professionals who insist on a full manual lens.

What I have seen, in HD, is that there is a lot of footage shot which is not as sharp as it should be.

If you have the opportunity, get your hands on the new XL H1s and put the new lens through its paces.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #177
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Finally some actual input on the new lens and it's feel. It sounds promising. If we could get an idea of what features won't work on the H1 that would be great. If it feels better then it "is" better. But if you put the lens on an H1 would it feel just like the original 20x lens negating all benefits of the having the newer one?
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Old May 6th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #178
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Dear Marty,

It you put the new lens on the original XL H1, it will still feel the same as it does on the XL H1s.

The feel is built in, it is not electronic. In other words, it feels the same if the camera is on or off.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #179
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But do we get the different focus speed settings on the old XL-H1?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:43 AM   #180
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Dear Floris,

I have not tested the new lens on an original XL H1.

However, I do feel that the Focus Speed is set by the firmware in the camera. The lens just carries out the foucs commands at the speed set by the firmware in the camera.
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