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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:26 PM   #121
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Absolutely agreed.

But most people prefer one over the other. I prefer Nikon ultimately. I like their color rendition over Canon's. But that might have more to do with their image processing and chips than with their glass.

Last edited by Floris van Eck; April 24th, 2008 at 01:36 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #122
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I just wanted to let everyone know that, at NAB, for the first time, Canon brought the entire design/engineering team to Vegas. I was very lucky to get to spend a couple of hours with them discussing the next camera (XL). I won't get into details of what was discussed but every valid and resonable upgrade that has been mentioned here was put forth. I also made a point that they should be checking here on DVinfo on a regular basis to find out what people want and any problems or concerns that may come up. I don't expect them to get involved in discussions but I think they will be looking and taking notes.
The bottom line is I think they really got what was being discussed, and hopefully, we see major upgrades on a new camera next year.

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Old April 24th, 2008, 03:36 PM   #123
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Thanks, Jim, and I'm jealous of the info you have but can't share yet (although you did tip your hand a little in that XL will live on!).

I'm NOT under any NDA so of course the company guys I'm acquainted with don't tell me anything non-public. Nevertheless, the course of even casual conversation tells me that the corporate culture alluded to in this old pre-XL H1 post is alive and well.

Absolutely without question, all the camera companies DO read every word about their products on DVINFO. Most choose not to publically engage in discussion/debate but They Are Listening.

Can't wait to see what 18-24 months bring us!
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:01 PM   #124
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Thanks Jim. Very appreciated.

I also believe that all camera manufacturers read these forums. We know that RED, Panasonic and JVC participate actively and that Sony and Canon don't do that. But that's fine, that's their corporate culture.

I really hope Canon will be back at the top with the XL-H1 successor. I don't care what they will do as long as they deliver. The EX1 and Scarlet really show Canon that they need to step up and claim their place back.

In the Fresh DV interview, the Canon representative said that Canon will stick with HDV for the next three years as they see it as the most comfortable and easy format to work with which is widely accepted. They may be right but I would like to see some options (CF slot next to tape mechanism). Maybe three years is what it takes them to put a 35mm sensor in the camera. If that's the case, I am more happy to wait.

Overall I must say I am very satisfied with the Canon XL-H1. The big shortcomings for me are the LCD/Viewfinder and the absence of a manual HD lens for the camera. I can live with most other things. Ergonomics could be better (weight distribution) but I think I am going to solve that by adding an IDX mounting plate on the back with 2 E10 batteries. They can be stacked so I will add like 1 kilogram to the back of the camera. Will help I guess. Another purchase I am going to do is a proper field monitor (evaluating new Nebtek, Panasonic BT-LH80W and the LSDSGN Carrion B/C). With these upgrade, I think I can enjoy my XL-H1 for another one to two years until Canon drops a bomb on us in the form of a 35mm sensor and EF mount).
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #125
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What I would like to know:

Will there be a firmware upgrade for the XL-H1? Can you use the new lens on the original XL-H1? I guess one does not work without the other.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Martin View Post
... but every valid and resonable upgrade that has been mentioned here was put forth.
Speaking on behalf of current A1/G1 owners who participated in the firmware update wishlist on this site, let's hope that they are ALSO considering providing at the very least, those updates that are certainly possible through a firmware update for us A1/G1 owners.

I'm no technician by any means, but there has got to be at least a few that were voted on that could be implemented (ex: OIS on/off mappable to Custom Key... display active Custom Preset name, etc.)

I may be dreaming.....
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer View Post
Thanks, Jim, and I'm jealous of the info you have but can't share yet (although you did tip your hand a little in that XL will live on!).

I'm NOT under any NDA so of course the company guys I'm acquainted with don't tell me anything non-public. Nevertheless, the course of even casual conversation tells me that the corporate culture alluded to in this old pre-XL H1 post is alive and well.

Absolutely without question, all the camera companies DO read every word about their products on DVINFO. Most choose not to publically engage in discussion/debate but They Are Listening.

Can't wait to see what 18-24 months bring us!
I just supposed we we talking about and XL. Please don't assume anything...And I only know what I passed on to them, not what they will actually do.

Thanks, Jim

Last edited by Jim Martin; April 24th, 2008 at 04:36 PM. Reason: I forgot something
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:35 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Floris van Eck View Post
Will there be a firmware upgrade for the XL-H1?
There have been and most likely will continue to be firmware upgrades for the XL H1, but keep in mind that the vast majority of improvements made to the XL H1S and H1A are not possible for the H1 simply by updating firmware. Most everything going on in the new cameras involves a complete re-working of internal circuitry (such as the audio block, for example).

The best course of action, and indeed the most logical expectation, for any H1 owner interested in the improvements made to the H1S / H1A is to sell the H1 and buy one of the new ones. That is the easiest and most direct upgrade path.


Quote:
Can you use the new lens on the original XL-H1? I guess one does not work without the other.
The new Series III lens is mostly compatible with the original H1. There's only a partial loss of certain functions.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:45 PM   #129
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I was privileged enough to be able to work with a brand new XL H1s for three days at NAB.

I was working at the Convergent-Design booth, within the Canon Booth. We were very busy, but I did get to work with the new lens and the new camera.

I am very impressed with the improvements. The lens feels much better, the iris ring is very nice, and you can focus and zoom at the same time.

I like the ability to control how the lens operates via the menu settings, where you can control how much rotation it takes to perform a function, such as zoom.

I also feel that the audio improvements are substantial. I like the idea of having limiters as well as the other improvements, such being able to setup each channel separately in all respects, including the source input.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:51 PM   #130
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I understand that many features are not possible on the original XL-H1. But things like different focus speeds (i find the focus speed on my camera to fast, it jumps from 1m to 50m far too quick) should be possible. I also do not see why we would not be able to control the different channels directly.

I think Canon added some nice new features but they are not worth like $4,000 for me (I guess I get a maximum of $5,000 for my XL-H1). That's why I prefer to wait until they announce the next big thing next year.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 08:57 PM   #131
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I don't mean to be a complainer but isn't the whole idea around the XL series that it is modular? Why then, does Canon insist on making improvements to the lens yet they do not sell it as a standalone for those of us with the original XL-H1 to benefit? If they are trying to force our hand and get us to buy the H1s/A then why bother pretending that they want all lenses to be compatible across the series? Just make them a fixed lens if that is what they are going to do to protect their "new" model. Sure maybe one day you can pick it up used but how likely is that in the near future?

We have been asking for a manual lens with HD glass for 2.5 years now and while this new lens isn't exactly that, it may offer some distinct advantages that could be utilized on the H1. Yet, they do not plan on selling it seperate....or conveniently not for a long time. Bummer.

There are no other features of the H1S/A that I can justify shelling out a ton of cash for over my current XLh1, other than the lens...maybe. If it was available as a standalone it might be a good option. As it stands it is a bit of a tease.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #132
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Why then, does Canon insist on making improvements to the lens yet they do not sell it as a standalone for those of us with the original XL-H1 to benefit?
Because it's *partially* compatible with the original XL H1. Therefore they're not going to sell you something that won't fully work with your camera.

Quote:
If they are trying to force our hand and get us to buy the H1s/A then why bother pretending that they want all lenses to be compatible across the series?
They are indeed compatible, to a degree. The camera bodies are always backward compatible with all older lenses (just be mindful of SD vs. HD). The camera bodies sometimes are not fully forward compatible with newer lenses. That's no different now than it has been in the past.

Quote:
There are no other features of the H1S/A that I can justify shelling out a ton of cash for over my current XLh1...
There's no reason to buy a second camera unless you really need it. However, the proper way to upgrade is to sell the older camera and put that money toward the newer one. That way you're not "shelling out a ton of cash" over your current camera. Besides, your current camera should have paid for itself by now. Any amount of money you get by selling it is pure profit, even if it's only half of what you bought it for. It's that much money off of a new one.

The new camera cost minus whatever amount you get for your old camera is what you're really shelling out. And since it's a business tool, it should pay for itself within three to six months anyway.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 10:35 PM   #133
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of course the idea is to sell your old camera and buy the new one... however even then it doesn't seem worth it. If indeed your camera has paid for itself then why cut into new profits by buying a camera that is nearly identical?

Just wish canon would truly take advantage of the modular design and interchangable lenses. The xlh1s/a really don't feel like an upgrade as much as an update. I didn't buy an xl1s over my xl1 back then either.

Oh well. Just would like more options. It seems be the dream of every xl owner that never gets met and makes the whole concept of modular seem useless.

Peace.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 11:20 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post
...why cut into new profits by buying a camera that is nearly identical?
Your impression is that it is nearly identical. My impression is that it is not.

Quote:
The xlh1s/a really don't feel like an upgrade as much as an update. I didn't buy an xl1s over my xl1 back then either.
I'm not sure how you're clarifying the difference between an upgrade and an update. It is an extensive set of changes relative to the difference between an XL1 and XL1S.

Some XL H1 owners will make the change... some will not. The XL H1 is no longer being sold though (except for existing dealer inventory). There will be a number of folks moving up from the XL2 or older cameras plus others who are new to the XL line. These are the people whom I'm inviting to ask questions about the new H1S and H1A.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #135
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Dear Marty,

I feel that the improvements in the XL H1s are substantial, especially in the lens.

But, I do not feel that these improvements have completely obsoleted my XL H1, which will still produce great images.
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