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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old April 16th, 2008, 11:17 PM   #1
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New HDD option for H1

Well...NAB was interesting as usual. The convergent design XDR is nice...but I personally will say...I thought it was way too big.

Mike from Convergent worked tireless hours to get a working version for NAB. Although it wasn't working the way they'd like...it was working. The overall size is a bit of a bummer...because you can't easily connect it to the H1. It's possible...but in my humble opinion...not a good size for handholding. it could be mounted to a tripod somehow...

I am also concerned about the rubber exterior. On cold days...I believe it could easily crack. I hope they do some cold testing on it before release.

http://www.convergent-design.com/


I stopped by the Focus Enhancements booth and spied their new FS-5 recorder.
I'll save all the details...and let you check it out.

http://www.focusenhancements.com/solutions/fs-5.asp

The one thing I really liked...(although it can't record high bit rates)...is the MXF recording capabilities this unit has. We edit on Avid Adrenaline...and these will just drop right into our sequences.

Don't be confused with the screen when you go to the website...it doesn't play or display video.

It looks like an ipod menu system.

This will be an interesting digital based option for us Canon lovers...but will not be available until June of this year.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 08:51 AM   #2
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How about this: http://www.ffv.com/releases/080325.htm

My biggest concern is the post production for J2K.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #3
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Kevin:
You may want to re-think your comparison of the Convergent Design XDR recorder to the Focus FS5.

They are entirely 2 different beasts.
The Focus FS5 is merely using a hard drive to record HDV. While HDV is awesome it has a 4:2:0 color space and a much higher rate of compression than the Convergent XDR which is at 4:2:2 color space with much lower mulitiple levels of compression. The XDR will also have the options to record single I-Frame instead of long GOP. And then sometime in the 3rd-4rth quarter of this year, the option to add 10 bit (vs. 8 bit).

Comparing the FS-5 HDV hard disk recorder to the XDR Flash recorder is really an apples and oranges comparison. As to the size of each, the FS-5 is an improvement on HDV disk recorders (if it is reliable - we have not had much luck with our Focus Enhancement recorder in HDV). The XDR size should be judged on comparable format devices, all of which are MUCH larger by many times and at many, many mulitples of the price.

To summarize - compare the XDR based on it's codec and recording formats, when looking at size, price, portability, life between recharges/power usage, storage options/prices/availability, ease of off-loading.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitold Vidic View Post
How about this: http://www.ffv.com/releases/080325.htm

My biggest concern is the post production for J2K.
Grass Valley's had a demo of their NLE - Edius (formerly Canopus) running Jpeg2000 NATIVELY on the timeline right from their Rev-Pro drive !

No rendering! Not even transferred to the workstation hard-drives or raid!

I think Edius is one of the first to so strongly support J2k so you may want to check Edius out. There is a free 1 month download of Edius - BUT I believe you have to have what they call their "Broadcast" option to access this Jpeg2000 codec. So you can try out Edius for it's NLE qualities to see if it fits you, and then go for it and the Broadcast option for J2K - it works well

Last edited by John Richard; April 17th, 2008 at 12:04 PM.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #5
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codex

for those of you at NAB,
what about the Codex Digital field recorder?
http://www.codexdigital.com/about/page2.php

any price on this?
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Old April 17th, 2008, 12:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Benton View Post
for those of you at NAB,
what about the Codex Digital field recorder?
http://www.codexdigital.com/about/page2.php

any price on this?
Now there is a fair comparison - I believe it's in the $30k range. Not at NAB any longer or I would check it out for you. Too rich for my budgets (so far ;>} )
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Old April 17th, 2008, 05:56 PM   #7
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2 of the 4 recorders discussed in this thread to date have won Viddy Awards at NAB '08:

Codex Digital Codex Portable
Convergent Design Flash XDR

(announced today)

Viddy Awards are decided by Videography as Best of Show.

FWIW
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Old April 17th, 2008, 06:41 PM   #8
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John,

All you say is true...and I know.
I was simply trying to explain some differences in SIZE. No question the XDR is a better solution...but it's size for portable work...leaves a bit to be desired. Doing any type of handheld work with is possible...but very cumbersome.

I think many of us agree (in other links in this forum) that the HDV that Canon creates with the H1 is superior to anyone elses HDV. So saying that...I've been impressed with the HDV on tape...so why not the HDV on disk ?

Yes...apples and oranges to the XDR....but again....for some things the XDR would be GREAT ! Especially studio shooting. But right now I'm not delighted with the size of the unit.

That's where the Fs-5 is nice for portable location work....

AGAIN...depending on how you want to record the footage...and what type of compression scheme.
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Old April 18th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #9
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Thanks for this thread.
I personally would Love 4:2:2 color and have been looking for a portable solution for awhile.
I think the weight of this on the back of the H1 will balance out its weight for run and gun work. Plus for those of us wanting to take advantage of the HdSdi out of an H1, this gives us a good sound option !
but I see your point, depending on your deliverable, a firestore for 1/5 the price is cool too
j

Last edited by John Benton; April 18th, 2008 at 07:57 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2008, 05:57 PM   #10
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Don't let the pictures fool you about the weight. It is quite light in weight. Check out the specs - 1 lb or 0.5kg.

Mounted on the bracket on the back of the H1, I really don't see the size (8" X 6" X 2.5" thick) being an issue - especially for what format capabilities it has (or will have).

If you look at the sTwo or Codex boxes or the Colorspace boxes (all of which were at NAB) they are many, many more times the size of this XDR.

For that matter, look at the AJA IO box too.... much larger.
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Old April 18th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #11
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Convergent-Design's Flash XDR grew a little in size from what was originally planned.

The goal was to achieve world-class audio.

The two analog mic/line level inputs and circuitry, with phantom power, required more board space, as did the space for two industry standard XLR input connectors.

The audio circuits require multiple power supplies, all of which take room, as does the phantom power circuits.

While the above does take room, it does not add much weight. Most everyone at the show who handled the unit was surprised how light it was.

Supporting four Compact Flash slots also requires a fair amount of room.

Convergent-Design announced at NAB, the nanoFlash, which is a much smaller version of the Flash XDR.

The preliminary specifications for the nanoFlash include two Compact Flash slots instead of four on the Flash XDR. The size is expected to be approximately 4" x 4" and the audio capabilities will be different.

Embedded audio (audio included in the HD-SDI signal from the camera), will be supported on both versions.

So we feel that the Flash XDR size increase was justified in order to provide world-class audio, which includes the ability to record in 24 bit via XLR inputs.
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