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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old June 16th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #1
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shooting 30f: 30, or 29.97?

Is 30f mode actually 30 frames a second, or 29.97, or something else? If you're shooting with the A-1 at 30F and a recording sound seperately, what frame rate would you set the audio recorder to--29.97 or 30?
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Old June 17th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #2
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Think of 30F as 29.97P. Set your field recorder(s) to 29.97 and you should stay in sync.

Personally, I would shoot at 29.97 and then de-interlace the footage to 30P in post. While the results look identical to the camera's 30F (in terms of temporal motion), I think the de-interlaced footage looks decidedly sharper. Just my opinion.
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Old June 17th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Robert Sanders View Post
Think of 30F as 29.97P. Set your field recorder(s) to 29.97 and you should stay in sync.

Personally, I would shoot at 29.97 and then de-interlace the footage to 30P in post. While the results look identical to the camera's 30F (in terms of temporal motion), I think the de-interlaced footage looks decidedly sharper. Just my opinion.
How do you shoot with the A1 at 29.97? I only see 24, 30, and 60i as frame rate options.
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Old June 18th, 2008, 03:12 AM   #4
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Jim when he says "shoot in 29.97" he means 60i (which is really 59.94).
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Old June 18th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen View Post
Jim when he says "shoot in 29.97" he means 60i (which is really 59.94).
Ah ha, thanks for the clarification. Who knew there'd be so much math?
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Old June 18th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #6
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So you guys think 60i deinterlaced looks much sharper than 30P directly? How about compression? typically 30 discrete frame would much easier on the codec than 60 half frames.....24f is even better....but resolution wise I do see the benefits of 60i.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #7
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So you guys think 60i deinterlaced looks much sharper than 30P directly? How about compression? typically 30 discrete frame would much easier on the codec than 60 half frames.....24f is even better....but resolution wise I do see the benefits of 60i.
You bring up an interesting point Marty. Theoretically long GOP compression works better with progressive frames. But I've learned that Canon's HDV implementation is so rock solid that no one's really broken it. However, that doesn't change the fundamentals of compression and interlaced imagery. So while you might get a sharpness increase shooting 60i you may also take a compression hit.

On one hand...

And on the other...
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Old June 30th, 2008, 02:32 PM   #8
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HDV in NTSC has one framerate: 29.97 (approximately - it's actually 30*1000/1001). Irrespective of the selected frame rate (60i, 30P, 24P) 60*1000/1001 fields will be written to tape every second. A separate audio recorder will record 48ksps (or 96 ksps or 192 ksps) irrespective of the selected frame rate. The camera and the recorder will each produce time code at the rate of 30 frames per second which slip relative to the video frames by the factor 1000/1001. Thus the only reason the recorder needs to know the camera frame rate is so that it (or an NLE using files from it) can reconcile time code with frame number for display and especially for file timestamping. Equally as important as the frame rate is whether it is drop frame or non drop frame. Not all NLEs can process all frame rates equally well. It is thus generally considered best to set timecode to 29.97ND when recording audio seprately with HDV. If experiment with recorder and NLE indicate ability to use DF and you prefer that then by all means have at it.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 01:38 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by A. J. deLange View Post
HDV in NTSC has one framerate: 29.97 (approximately - it's actually 30*1000/1001). Irrespective of the selected frame rate (60i, 30P, 24P) 60*1000/1001 fields will be written to tape every second. A separate audio recorder will record 48ksps (or 96 ksps or 192 ksps) irrespective of the selected frame rate. The camera and the recorder will each produce time code at the rate of 30 frames per second which slip relative to the video frames by the factor 1000/1001. Thus the only reason the recorder needs to know the camera frame rate is so that it (or an NLE using files from it) can reconcile time code with frame number for display and especially for file timestamping. Equally as important as the frame rate is whether it is drop frame or non drop frame. Not all NLEs can process all frame rates equally well. It is thus generally considered best to set timecode to 29.97ND when recording audio seprately with HDV. If experiment with recorder and NLE indicate ability to use DF and you prefer that then by all means have at it.
Thanks for the very informative reply!
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