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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old June 30th, 2008, 08:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
...you need to choose the particular format (HDV vs. XDCAM) and workflow (tape vs. flash) that is most appealing to you...
Thanks for the feedback, but I think this gives me more questions... I'm very new in this HD world...
Format : HDV and XDCAM. For the moment I use PAL DV format. The only thing I see as a big difference between DHV and XDCAM is the output format. Or am I wrong ?
Workflow : Tape or Flash. As I said, for the moment I use Tape. Nothing wrong with it for the moment. Only that I have to read every tape again after the shooting. And otherwise I have to carry my macbook pro to copy onstage the SxS cards. Now I have to change a tape.

So the only thing is the format : HDV or XDCAM ? Any help here...

Thanks.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 09:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erwin Vanderhoydonks View Post
Thanks for the feedback, but I think this gives me more questions... I'm very new in this HD world...
Format : HDV and XDCAM. For the moment I use PAL DV format. The only thing I see as a big difference between DHV and XDCAM is the output format. Or am I wrong ?
Workflow : Tape or Flash. As I said, for the moment I use Tape. Nothing wrong with it for the moment. Only that I have to read every tape again after the shooting. And otherwise I have to carry my macbook pro to copy onstage the SxS cards. Now I have to change a tape.

So the only thing is the format : HDV or XDCAM ? Any help here...

Thanks.
I think you are simplifying the workflow here a bit. When I first started shooting with the EX1, the tapeless workflow showed great benefits for cinema production, but not for some eng and event work. Having to offload in the field when you are a minimal sized crew (or by myself) wasn't the easiest thing in the world, especially with a time restriction. You have to really see what type of shooting you will be doing.

HDV vs. XDCAM EX? Well XDCAM EX is a technically superior format, being everything HDV is, only being native full raster, higher bitrate, and variable at that.

But that being said, Canon HDV does the job as well, its just a matter again of what you will be shooting as the workflow seems to be the decider. Tape or SxS cards ...

The plus with the Canon is that there is tape along with the HD-SDI, so you have the option to go tapeless as well ... I use an AJA IO HD to record superb footage from the HD-SDI, far superior to what laid to tape or SxS card ... but then that's a different type of shooting altogether. I guess I'm just saying you can have both tape and tapeless with the Canon (albiet higher priced though).
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Old June 30th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Michael Galvan View Post
Well XDCAM EX is a technically superior format, being everything HDV is, only being native full raster, higher bitrate, and variable at that.
But that being said, Canon HDV does the job as well, its just a matter again of what you will be shooting as the workflow seems to be the decider.
...HD-SDI...
Thanks for the quick feedback...
After reading all of this, I'll think Igo for the Canon XL H1A. I'm used to the XL1, the body is great and the XL H1A has the 'same' body. And tape gives the same result and same workflow, so if my XL1 can't be fixed, this is the one to go for...
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Old June 30th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Erwin Vanderhoydonks View Post
Thanks for the quick feedback...
After reading all of this, I'll think Igo for the Canon XL H1A. I'm used to the XL1, the body is great and the XL H1A has the 'same' body. And tape gives the same result and same workflow, so if my XL1 can't be fixed, this is the one to go for...
Now remember, the H1A doesn't have the HD-SDI, so what I mentioned earlier isn't possible.

But you CAN still go tapeless via a Firestore device.

But yes, I think you'll acclimate well to the camera if you are used to the XL series ...
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Old June 30th, 2008, 10:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Michael Galvan View Post
Now remember, the H1A doesn't have the HD-SDI, so what I mentioned earlier isn't possible.

But you CAN still go tapeless via a Firestore device.

But yes, I think you'll acclimate well to the camera if you are used to the XL series ...
No need for HD-SDI
Firestore is an option...

But first getting used to the camera and later...

Thanks for your feedback...
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Old June 30th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #21
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Remember the firestore is gong to only record HDV also, so there is no benefit image wise to using it. It will look identical to tape images. However it could be a great benefit to going tapeless.

I'd bet there will soon be devices capable of recording HDV streams to CF cards so don't rush into the firestore, which is hard drive based system, unless you have to. These can still be prone to failing since there are still moving parts.

Good Luck. I just wanted to make sure you understood the benefits (or lack of) of the firestore.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Michael Galvan View Post
I'll be shooting a feature late this summer, and I've decided to go with the XL-H1S with mini35/uncompressed capture and use tape as backup.
Great solution and workflow for feature production. I didn't use a Mini35 on my show, but I did go with the HD-SDI to ProRes solution. Very happy.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 01:47 AM   #23
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I am more inclined to think an image produced by a cam is only as strong as it's weakest part. I am still on the fence about HD and will wait to see lens, sensor, format, and shutter etc. to all be at the same level before I buy.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 02:50 PM   #24
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You'll be waiting a long time then. ;)

There's no such thing as the perfect camera where all it's parts are equal. At least not the in the price range you're shopping for.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 03:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik View Post
I'd bet there will soon be devices capable of recording HDV streams to CF cards so don't rush into the firestore, which is hard drive based system, unless you have to. These can still be prone to failing since there are still moving parts.
Even if there is no failure, the hard drive nature of the Firestore still means long boot up time, quite high power consumption, and the possibility of quite bad fan noise as it heats up. (Latest model may have got over this?)

CF recording of HDV has already arrived if you count the Sony device that is bundled with the Z7, S270.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:01 PM   #26
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Cf for hdv is indeed available to Sony z7 users only. However it has been confirmed this device works with the Canon A1. However it is not for sale separately yet.
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Old July 5th, 2008, 08:26 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Galvan View Post
HDV vs. XDCAM EX? Well XDCAM EX is a technically superior format, being everything HDV is, only being native full raster, higher bitrate, and variable at that.
Would that imply that the XDCAM format does a better job at being manipulated in post, for color correction, with less artifacting and more "undoability" overall?
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