First ever shoot with XL-H1 need a little help please. at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 23rd, 2008, 08:07 AM   #1
Tourist
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, England
Posts: 3
First ever shoot with XL-H1 need a little help please.

hello everyone.
as well as filming skateboarding i've recently started delving into narrative/short film cinematography. Just yesterday i received a permit in the post that i've been waiting a long time for. its to shoot a short film on the london underground (subway) . the college where I study has a few XLH1s and i'm really keen to use one for the shoot. The full setup will be the standard 20x hd lens and a firestore Hard drive (although i intend to record to the tape aswell). the look i'm after is a dynamic 35mm film look, but i've had limited experience shooting in both HD and 24f and I REALLY want to have an understanding of it before the crucial and very brief shoot that the permit allows. I remember using the "frame mode"-imitation progressive- on my canon XM2 (GL2) and almost always getting strobing when movement occurred onscreen, I'm keen to avoid this if its possible. I've been looking all over the forums and at the sample footage and i've also read the manual through a few times

-what kind of things do I need to know when shooting in 24f and HD and do you think i should do some tests: shooting footage and then capturing, editing and exporting it to see what the outcomes look like?

-I've heard a lot of talk about the custom presets, my understanding of this (they had a basic version on the xm2) is that is is a way of tweaking aspects of the image. can anyone shed a little light on this and maybe reccomend one for the shoot? or is it best to experiment once i'm there?

-how crucial is sticking to a shutter speed like 1/48th and what will happen if i have to change shutter speed?

-if I'm editing on a final cut 6 is there anything i need to know about in terms of the editing process and exporting?

-the manual says that 25f gets converted for playback in 50i using 2:3 pulldown method. what does this mean and should I be aware of anything regarding this?

sorry for the lenght of the message and for the fact that my first ever post is just a plee for infomation/advice but I really need to get this down prior the shoot so any knowledge you can spare me would be greatly appreciated. been lurking on the site past few days and I think its such a great resource, some great film makers on here.

thanks
Luke Ogden U.K.
Luke Ogden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 10:54 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Ogden View Post
hello everyone.
as well as filming skateboarding i've recently started delving into narrative/short film cinematography. Just yesterday i received a permit in the post that i've been waiting a long time for. its to shoot a short film on the london underground (subway) . the college where I study has a few XLH1s and i'm really keen to use one for the shoot. The full setup will be the standard 20x hd lens and a firestore Hard drive (although i intend to record to the tape aswell). the look i'm after is a dynamic 35mm film look, but i've had limited experience shooting in both HD and 24f and I REALLY want to have an understanding of it before the crucial and very brief shoot that the permit allows. I remember using the "frame mode"-imitation progressive- on my canon XM2 (GL2) and almost always getting strobing when movement occurred onscreen, I'm keen to avoid this if its possible. I've been looking all over the forums and at the sample footage and i've also read the manual through a few times

-what kind of things do I need to know when shooting in 24f and HD and do you think i should do some tests: shooting footage and then capturing, editing and exporting it to see what the outcomes look like?

-I've heard a lot of talk about the custom presets, my understanding of this (they had a basic version on the xm2) is that is is a way of tweaking aspects of the image. can anyone shed a little light on this and maybe reccomend one for the shoot? or is it best to experiment once i'm there?

-how crucial is sticking to a shutter speed like 1/48th and what will happen if i have to change shutter speed?

-if I'm editing on a final cut 6 is there anything i need to know about in terms of the editing process and exporting?

-the manual says that 25f gets converted for playback in 50i using 2:3 pulldown method. what does this mean and should I be aware of anything regarding this?

sorry for the lenght of the message and for the fact that my first ever post is just a plee for infomation/advice but I really need to get this down prior the shoot so any knowledge you can spare me would be greatly appreciated. been lurking on the site past few days and I think its such a great resource, some great film makers on here.

thanks
Luke Ogden U.K.
Dear Luke,

The first recommendation is to shoot with the camera, then capture your video, and check the results. Make note of all of you settings, then test, test, test.

I would start with 1080i, with a shutter speed of 60, in manual mode. If you are going to want slo-mo, then you could use 120 shutter speed.

If you shoot 24f (which is 24p), then start with a shutter speed of 48 (1/48th of a second).

If you want slow-mo, then stay with 1080i.

If you have fast action, you may like 1080i better.

Presets are great. Since you have the XL H1s, any preset for the XH A1 and XL H1s will work. Experiment.

Frame mode is great. but if you are shooting high-speed skateboarding, I would recommdend that you start with 1080i.

I hope others will join in and give you some recommendations.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:56 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 260
Dan what is the reasoning behind 120 shutter speed for slomo on the XLH1?
Doug Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 03:18 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sussex, UK
Posts: 317
Hi Luke, First of all good luck with the shoot.

in no particular order:

My personal preferences is to stick with the 25p and not use interlaced as you are trying to get that 'dynamic 35 mm look'. Just don't pan to fast otherwise you will get strobing but I actually like that effect and its gives you that 'film look'. The 25p is hidden in the 1080i stream. FCP will recognize this and it will be shown progressive and for all intents and purposes it is. You can get away with a little 25p slow mo in post as long as it was captured with a fast enough frame rate. (Turn off 'Frame Blending' in FCP)

To get to grips leave the camera in 'A' AUTO mode then frame the shot and then press the EXP. LOCK this will in effect put the camera into Manual. If you are set to 25F don't let the shutter speed drop below 1/25sec try and keep this at 1/50 or above just depends on light. Using the 'EXP. LOCK' will automatically put the shutter speed at 1/25 for you. Just be aware any fast action/fast moving objects will have frame blur, but that not a bad thing just depends on the look. i.e Flames of a fire look good at 25p with a fast shutter speed as does water sprayed from a hose. Then just control the Aperture 'ring' to adjust the light. When you get used to the set up pop the camera in 'M' as then you will have the full range of shutter speeds.

Get used to the 3 rings on the lens and with practice you can control the Focus with finger and thumb and then the next two digits on the zoom and aperture

Don't leave the camera in Auto White Balance use the two presets or adjust manually to suit. That goes with Auto Gain, turn it off. If you need a little more light and have no other choice then use 3dB, I normally have the presets set to -3dB, 0dB and 3dB. But if it's a case of otherwise missing a shot pump it up a little higher.

The camera is front heavy so if you have something on the back that will help balance the camera (fire-store maybe a little light) IDX battery is about right, also make sure you get her balanced left to right otherwise when you relax your wrist will have wonkey parallels.

Make sure you turn off 'Image stabilization' when on legs, otherwise the lens will wobble a bit when you finish a pan.

Set your Zebra level to 90 if you need to check highlights and put in an 80% Safety Zone for framing.

Skate boarding will look great in 25p with a fast shutter speed. If the skate boarder is out side you may need the ND filter on to keep either the shutter speed down or the lens open.

As for the custom presets I think only the newer XL-H1 can use the A1 presets, but there are a few spreadsheets out there of the setting and footage showing the results. Have a look on Vimeo or Exposure Room for samples. If you keep a balanced image not to heavy on the black and not too rich on the colours and keep the highlights from blowing out. You then have the choice in post to get the look you want, do you have the Magic Bullet 'Looks' plug in's for FCP they are very good as long as you are not tempted to go mad with them. The Canons are always a little hot on the reds so be careful if you are using the custom presets and one of the cast is wearing red.

I don't use the fire-store as I have always captured back from tape, besides it gives you a chance to watch all the footage back as you capture. You can stay within the HDV settings in FCP but if you are grading the entire footage it may be better to capture to an intermediate.

Once you have cut and rendered and ready for rough print export as a quick time file from FCP and drop into 'Compressor' for a good output for web 'Vimeo' or 'Exposure Room' follow the setting on their web sites but its basically 720 x 1280 H.264 bit-rate depending on short 3,500 to 12,000. You can add a little sharpening in compressor also (as long as you are going smaller). If you are hosting the file you may have to go a quarter size. Just stick to divisible by 2 ratios. Its more economical to have a larger pixel sized file at higher compression than a small pixel sized file with least compression. Even if the Mb size is the same.

Hope some of this helps a little.

KR, James
James Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 06:47 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Doug,

Many knowledgable users have recommended 120 shutter speed when doing slow-mo, using 1080i60, or 100 shutter speed when doing 1080i50.

If you have enough light, the faster shutter speed will stop the action better, with less blur of the image, if you have a fast moving subject.

Others may have better reasons for the recommendations.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2008, 08:48 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 260
Dan I think perhaps you have misunderstood the recommendation to using faster speeds for slomo, With film, or some high end video cameras it makes sense because you can actually record 120 fps. With the XLH1 you cannot record more than 60.
Doug Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Doug,

I am recommending that you shoot 1080i60 with a shutter speed of 1/120th of a second.

Thus, there will be 60 fields per second (interlaced), 30 full frames per second, and the shutter will be open for only 1/120th of a second to expose the image, one half as long as usual.

Usually, but not always, one uses a 1/60th of a second shutter with 1080i60.

Here is just one thread where 1/120th of a second shutter is recommended, there are others:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/xl-h-seri...ce-slowmo.html
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 04:51 AM   #8
Tourist
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, England
Posts: 3
thanks for the quick response guys, and for the warm welcome. i've got a good chance to have a play with the camera tomorrow so i've printed of this page and to take with me and hopefully do lots of practices/tests see what comes out. thanks again
Luke Ogden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 11:29 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 260
Dan thanks for taking the time. I'm still not clear as to what is happening. Do you have any link that explains this in more detail?
Doug Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2008, 05:11 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Miller View Post
Once you have cut and rendered and ready for rough print export as a quick time file from FCP and drop into 'Compressor' for a good output for web 'Vimeo' or 'Exposure Room' follow the setting on their web sites but its basically 720 x 1280 H.264 bit-rate depending on short 3,500 to 12,000. You can add a little sharpening in compressor also (as long as you are going smaller). If you are hosting the file you may have to go a quarter size. Just stick to divisible by 2 ratios. Its more economical to have a larger pixel sized file at higher compression than a small pixel sized file with least compression. Even if the Mb size is the same.

Hope some of this helps a little.

KR, James
this part helps me too. Thanks for posting.
Daniel Lopez is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:09 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network