Edirol Disk Recorder...Anyone use it with XL-H1 ? at DVinfo.net

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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old November 27th, 2008, 08:58 PM   #1
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Edirol Disk Recorder...Anyone use it with XL-H1 ?

Guys...I've run across this....a disc recorder. I purposely didn't post this in the disc forums...because of the following:

24f recording capability.

Here's the unit:
F-1 Video Field Recorder


I emailed the folks at Edirol and they replied with the following:

Can the F1 record the 24 "f" capability of the Canon XL-H1 ?

We shoot alot of 24f with that camera.....just curious....

The Focus FS-5 equivalent DOES NOT allow for recording that format in HD or
SD.

Edirol Response:

In short, yes.
The EDIROL F-1 will capture your Canon-generated 24f HDV stream into M2T
files and retain that frame rate. Please be aware that your NLE may
automatically re-frame your imported M2T material to 29.97 via
pull-down. Check with your NLE documentation to see if it supports 24f
natively.


Best Regards,

Ted Rosen
Roland Systems Group



Curious if anyone has experience with this unit...it looks nice....
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Last edited by Kevin Martorana; November 27th, 2008 at 08:59 PM. Reason: typo mistakes
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 09:38 AM   #2
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Just erased my post due to it being quite ignorant. That's an interesting looking box. Can you capture uncompressed audio with that when shooting HDV?
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 08:43 PM   #3
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It seems I'll have a demo from Roland by Friday at the latest...

I'll post my findings as soon as possible. My biggest concern is the workflow with Avid.

Avid will accept the .m2t files....but sync issues are a concern....seems I'll be the first to find out if it works or not !!!

More to come.....
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Old December 7th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #4
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F1 Review...

The fine folks at Roland supplied me with a demo of the F1....
Here are my initial reports/findings/thoughts...IMHO.

Nice size...very lightweight. Only about a pound or so.

SUPER ease to use. Easy menu structure on the front LCD...although you might need
your bifocals...but easy to figure out and use.

Harddrive removes simply...and so does the AA battery pack.

Connection to my XL-H1 was simple with the dv connector into the F1. It instantly saw it...and displayed what the matching TC was on the camera...and what format I was recording. Even the the 24F mode...it displayed 1080i 24F.

Multifunction display is great...showing not only the timecode ...but you can push one button...and show the elapsed time of the recording you are doing.

Unit is receiving 2 channels of audio from the H1. If you want 2 more channels...you need to input them DIRECTLY into the F1 via XLR connectors. Both mic/line and a -20db switch are on the side. Also a +48v switch is easy to access. 2 pots on the front are easy to control for levels for ch. 3/4 and a headphone jack give you monitoring capabilities.
You can also see the levels of ch.3/4 on the lcd. YOU CANNOT see levels for ch. 1/2...I assume the figure you are monitoring those via the camera.

Channel 3/4 show up in the folders as a stereo set .wav file. It is NOT embedded into the .m2t file. With talking with Edirol tech Ted Rosen...he said you have to sync these audio tracks to the video tracks in your NLE. There is a sync feature in the menus of the F1..."mystery numbers" 1-15 or so.... You would have to do tests....recording on 3/4 then transferring...and looking at the sync. Then..changing the sync number in the menu...and trying again...wow. That doesn't sound like fun....just to sync 2 channels of audio.

A small muffin fan is on the left side of the unit. It is a "bit" noisy...
In a SUPER QUITE room...for an interview...you would be able to hear this. Only when someone is NOT talking. This is one of the few negatives I have on the F1...and it's picky.

There is a 15 pin RGB output...to a computer monitor for monitoring the F1. I plugged it in...and was able to see all my clips on the F1. I wasn't able to play them....I plugged in a USB mouse to the front of the F1...and could navigate on this screen...but still couldn't play the clips.

Using the 8 rechargable NimH batteries...it runs about 2 hours.

Now for the operational part. Plugging it into your computer is seamless. It plugged into our HP workstation (running xp pro) and immediately showed up as the F1 harddrive. Poof. INSTANT. Again..using the USB connections on the front.

Recording
I did a test record from the H1 to the F1...1080i..60.

Recorded abot 3 minutes with me talking...using a wireless mic...into ch. 1 of the H1.
Connected the F1 to the computer...
We have an Avid Adrenaline...so I imported the .m2t file from the folder on the F1 and it's a clip. The Avid Adrenaline fast imported the .m2t file...but will not playback the clip in HIGH RES...because of the raster issues. In a low quality mode...it plays and you can edit it. If I wanted to finish a project with it....I would have to transcode the entire finished sequence to Avid's DNx-HD codec....for it to play out in HQ.
I did this...and it looks fine. Audio and Video are synced...and quality is what you expect...25mbs HDV. Dandy...(wish it played in HQ from the start....but that the Avid's fault. I'm told the new Nitris DX will play "thin raster" HDV no problem. Unfortunately that's a 19k upgrade for me right now...)

24F
The F1 records 24f no problem.
The Avid...imports the file...and the problems begin. Audio sync is not even close....and wanders constantly. when you do sync it up...15 sec. later...it's way out.

I tested the .m2t file (recorded in 24f) using a free player (VLC). The footage played just fine...audio sync is spot on. Bottom line...for me....the Avid won't deal with that. OH...and the video worked the same way as I mentioned above with the 1080i 60 footage...no HQ until you transcode to Avid DNx-HD.

So...for you Avid folks out there with an H1...although this is a great little box....it's not the answer for digital disk recording.

FCP
Although we use FCP sparingly...I tried importing the m2t files into FCP ver. 6.0.5
I found out immediately...it wouldn't do it. Seems people out there are having to convert the m2t files to something else...to bring into FCP. This is only my quick 5 minute google experience...so take that for what it's worth...

Soooo...

Bottom line...great little box...would be easy to mount..synced with the camera easily but he m2t format just doesn't play well with NLE's. I'm curious why Roland would go the m2t route instead of another digital file format...
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Last edited by Kevin Martorana; December 7th, 2008 at 01:25 PM. Reason: add additional info
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Old December 13th, 2008, 06:55 AM   #5
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Thanks Kevin.

I spoke with Edirol right after the announcement of this device and they told me the same: only M2T and no Quicktimes which is a major dealbreaker for me.

If it would record Quicktime files I would have bought one already.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 08:17 PM   #6
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Yeah...agreed Floris.

And to answer Marco's question about uncompressed audio....
Yes. It does....ch.3/4 records 16bit 44.1khz wave files.

Now I'll have to see if the Focus FS-CV will work !
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Old December 17th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #7
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The FS-S CV looks nice on paper.

However, I am not sure if I am going to invest $2,000 in my XL-H1 system as I am convinced that my next camera will be tapeless (every new camera goes tapeless). I think I am going to save my money towards a new camera purchase.
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