So Chris, how does 24f actually look? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 14th, 2005, 01:19 PM   #16
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren
Steve:

Where is the information from?
He's interpolating step 2&3 from the rest of the information given in "The Skinny". While he could be wrong, so far I think he's right.

The golden nugget that has set my mind at ease is that they're saying the CCD is clocked at 24hz. To screw the chain up after that would be insanity. I agree with what somebody else said...for all practical purposes the camera operates as progressive it seems. They could have saved themselves some trouble...the F900 does a similar trick and nobody questions how that camera comes up with 24P.
Nate Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 01:19 PM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren
For those doing film blow-ups etc and other resolution intensive work, it does matter how it's created. And for figuring out if the 24F is available via SDI.
So what if the image looked great on a film out, but wasn't technically progressive in its original incepetion, would you still have a problem with it? My point still applies to a film out as well, if it looks good on a film out, then it is good there as well. Transfer houses will surely test this cam out for film outs, so we'll all know soon enough.
Glenn Gipson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 01:21 PM   #18
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 547
Quote:
Where is the information from?
I made it up based upon my understanding of sampling theory, pull-downs and video signals. Cramming 24 frames into 60i isn't exactly a new thing in video - it's been around a long time... and the rules are pretty standard.

The exact order of the operations/steps varies quite a bit... but it is sufficient to know that if the CCD is run at 24 Hz, regardless as to whether it's sampled as interlaced or progressive, the result is a single frame of information. The only information anyone should really be caring about right now is whether the CCD is clocked at 24 Hz. Once this is established (i.e., if Chris' article is correct), then there's very little to worry about except minor details in terms of compression flags etc.

-Steve
Steven White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 01:32 PM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 165
I think what everyone is trying to figure out, but doesn't seem to be saying, is that we are wondering if the 24F footage is full resolution, i.e. 1080 vertical lines, or if it is cut to 540 lines due to dropping one field.
Daniel Broadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 01:50 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 547
Chris' article infers that it is the full 1080 lines.

-Steve
Steven White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 02:56 PM   #21
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
Well, that's the point -- if it delivers a full 1080 lines of resolution, and the image is captured properly at discrete 24hz intervals, then I don't care how they get there, as long as they get there. If it looks, smells, tastes and acts like genuine 24P, they can call it whatever they want and it'll still be exactly what we want.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 03:11 PM   #22
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
Canon can't call it 24p because it isn't progressive.

For Final Cut pro users, I'm sure there will be updates. For the record, FCP 5 can't capture from the HD100, as I found out the other day. JVC says their equivilant deck can, but that's about a month from release.

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 06:06 PM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NE of London, England
Posts: 788
24P itself is only an imitation of 24fps film. 24F is just another imitation of filmic motion, but using a different letter.
Mike Marriage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 06:20 PM   #24
Space Hipster
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,508
Okay, the above posts contridict each other so many times it's kinda of fun.

I agree - it amounts to 24p and they call it whatever, everybody's happy. But perhaps I'm reading too much into why it's not called 24p and 24f because of negative experience with frame movie mode.

Frame movie mode was a similar adventure with people for years insisting it was equal to or better resolution before it become widely known it was lower resolution. And that info did not come from Canon. The "progressive modes" on the Sony HDV took much less to realize that they were not real progressive.

However, it is full rez 24 fps, they should ring the bell loudly as assuming the lens and CCD's perform well, that's quite exciting.
__________________
stephen v2
www.insaturnsrings.com
Stephen van Vuuren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 09:54 PM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
...I'll post an AVI this evening which should show it off somewhat...
Has the AVI been posted yet?
Jacob Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 11:37 PM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 162
So (just to be sure), 24F is not equivalent to CF24 in the Z1U?

Is it true that even the 1080p of the HVX200 will be delivered in an interlaced stream? If so, will the 1080i at 24F be compared to a 1080p?

-EDWIN
Edwin Hernandez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 11:44 PM   #27
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
From what I understand, 24F is NOT like CF24 in the FX1/Z1 (though we had some luck with it in my film 3 Sisters, but we won't do it again).

I don't know if the HVX200 will do 1080p. I'm not sure how many will do that. Unless it's like you say, 1080p in some sort of interlaced delivery.

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 11:49 PM   #28
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
The HVX does genuine 24p, yes.

It won't take more than five minutes to figure out if the 24F mode is legit or not; all we have to do is shoot a res chart with/without 24f mode on to determine resolution, and then shoot some constant-motion objects next to a true 24p camera to determine motion sampling.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2005, 11:51 PM   #29
MPS Digital Studios
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 8,531
Barry's right--we should also do it with the JVC.

heath
__________________
My Final Cut Pro X blog
Heath McKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2005, 03:27 AM   #30
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 1,427
OK guys, you talked me into it. I have an HD resolution chart, if you send me the XL-HDQWERTY1 and the HD100U for a week I'll shoot the charts, but I'll only do it if it's during the next dv challenge...

Oh and uh, where's that .avi?
__________________
I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...
Nick Hiltgen is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network