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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old September 22nd, 2005, 12:32 AM   #1
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Portable HD-SDI Recording Options

Okay,

So lots of us want to be able to record HD-SDI out of the Canon without having to be confined to a studio with a high-end deck, or a BlackMagic card sitting in a 20lb tower PC.

We agree that recording a fully uncompressed HD-SDI signal on something portable is not practical due to needing an array of some sort.

We also agree that some compression is needed, but a compression that is much higher than what HDV is putting on tape, but less than 1.45Gbps to a RAID array.

So let's put our thinking caps on. What are some ideas - is it a modifed FireStore that has a tricked out compressor in it, or maybe a laptop configured with a HD-SDI port with Final Cut Pro recording the stream in a DVCPRO50 format? Something you could put in a backpack, or could sling over your shoulder like the external VHS recorders back in the 80's?

I suspect that Canon or someone has to be planning the release of something like this that can be transported easily and record higher than HDV levels through that tempting little SDI port. So as someone else on the board stated "I shoot in the woods, not a studio" can go out an caputre nearly-untouched footage.

In the meantime, I bet we can come up with a clever MacGyver way to take SDI on the road.

-Brad
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Old September 22nd, 2005, 01:55 AM   #2
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here's my solution, yours may very. Go out and buy like 20 4 gig ipod nano's then buy a black magic card and work out a processor. tThrow all of thsoe things together and write a program so that you can distribute the information across the nano's and viola, you've got 80gig's of storage. which should last like what? 4 minutes of raw or something? power off of a couple of dionic batteries...
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Old September 22nd, 2005, 03:07 PM   #3
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maybe Avid will come out with Mojo-2 with Sdi inputs that encodes in their DnXhd codec that can already be editted in most Avid NLE programs



-Rand
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Old September 22nd, 2005, 03:23 PM   #4
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Here's my suggestion

http://videosystems.com/e-newsletter...tenders092205/
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Old September 22nd, 2005, 04:45 PM   #5
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Grass Valley Infinity Recording System

hey guys thought I might chime in about what I have found so far for an HD-SDI solution. The Grass Valley Infinity Recording system. Looks to be pretty a pretty sweet little system for sub $10k, but of course you will still need a nig big Array to dump footage to.

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/a...e.jsp?id=34587

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/ne..._Industry.html

It shoudl be available the 1st quarter of 2006.

I am interested in purchasing one of these for myself. If any of you are interested in this product please contact me at EVS. And I can work to see if we can maybe get these when they come out on a big order.

For raids I like this :

http://www.peripheralstorage.com/raid/fc_sata2.htm

up to 4Gbps and 16 Bay.

I also have yet to see if i like the DRaid but hopefully I can test it out soon.



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Old September 22nd, 2005, 05:26 PM   #6
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Expensive, but interesting

This device is 5 lbs, and can hold up to 16GB it seems, and offload stuff via ethernet.

They use it with Varicam for steadycam work, and greenscreen stuff...

Kind of expensive, but hey price is no object, right? =) Shoot some stuff to the unit, hand it off to your PA to download on the laptop drive, while you're shooting footage to another one?

Or beam it wirelessly off the unit over a Super MultiGigabit Extreme-Geee Ethernet Card to your laptop in your backpack? =)

http://millimeter.com/mag/BaytechCin...422/index.html

http://production.digitalmedianet.co...jsp?id=27354-0

http://www.digitalvideo.de/dvc/htm/e...M_30.05.05.pdf


-Brad
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 03:41 PM   #7
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CineRAM

So I have done some research on the CineRAM, the 8GB entry level version starts at $18,645.00 not sure about the 16Gb version. I'm speaking with some poeple , but the Baytech Cinema Site is down and the contact number I found is no longer in service so that isn't a good sign.

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Old September 23rd, 2005, 04:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Rhodes
the 8GB entry level version starts at $18,645.00
Cool, maybe I'll get one of those and then get an XLH1 as an accessory for it.
:)
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 05:30 PM   #9
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CineRAM Availability

Yeah I was having a hard time trying to find current info on it too.. I got the impression that the company that made it had gone bye-bye or something. The press release for it was like a year ago.. something isn't adding up current day, I'll dig for some more info as well.

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Old September 23rd, 2005, 05:50 PM   #10
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8GB? Does it employ some sort of compression? 8GB would only get you about 45 seconds of recording time if it's recording uncompressed HD-SDI from an XL H1.

In one of those links it said it was available at Abel Cine Tech, but a search of Abel's site doesn't show anything for CineRam...
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 06:54 PM   #11
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Baytech Cinema

So I got the official word Baytech Cinema is out of Business. Bummer

:(
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 07:11 PM   #12
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I wonder if they have any old product that they want to unload...
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Old September 23rd, 2005, 11:17 PM   #13
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Baytech Gone

Man that is unfortunate that they have gone out of business, I was afraid that might be the case. Yeah it would be cool if they had a warehouse full of these things for cheap.

Barry - you are right, at 185MB/sec it would eat it up in about 45 seconds.. as far as I could tell it was uncompressed - so yeah that is kinda short.. I read somewhere about 16GB.. but even then.. a minute and a half? Not very good either.. oh well doesn't look like we have to worry much about this avenue since they are no longer around.

Keep searching folks..

-Brad
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Old September 26th, 2005, 06:09 AM   #14
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My dream mobile back for the XL H1 would have the following:

. HD-SDI In => DVCPRO HD/50/25 => tapeless recording
. DV/HDV In => tapeless recording
. DVCPRO tapeless recording => HD-SDI Out
. DV/HDV tapeless recording => DV/HDV Out
. swappable off-the-shelf storage (Iomega REV or hard disk drive (HDD))
. battery powerable
. compact, light & weather-resistant
. ~$3K-$5K

The compressed HD-SDI format needs to be a stardard for compatibility with NLEs. Reason I list DVCPRO is that I have Final Cut and Final Cut supports it. If a major player (Canon, etc.) came out with a similar format (tapeless HDV?) and was able to get the major NLEs to support it, that'd work also.

DVCPRO HD's data rate of 100Mbps means you could store
. just over 45 minutes on an Iomega Rev disk
. just over 50 minutes on a 40GB HDD.

Need swappable media to be able to support data volumes between offloads to RAID economically.

Battery power should be compatible with XL H1 battery requirements so you could power both with a brick.

Is this system technically feasible. Is the price feasible? Will someone build it? (Please!?! :) )

Questions:
Can DVCPRO HD handle 1080/30f? Does it need to if the NLE can?
Could Final Cut natively handle 1080/30f DVCPRO HD? I'm a version out but I only see import options of DVCPRO HD 1080i60, 720p60, 720p30, & 720p24.

Last edited by Don Crockett; September 26th, 2005 at 07:11 AM.
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Old September 26th, 2005, 10:22 PM   #15
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what about the kinetta magazine? Apparently it stores 110mins of 24fps raw uncompressed 10bit 1080p HD using laptop HDDs... could it be adapted for use with the H1? there wasn't much info on the kinetta website that I could find, but it looks like it just plugs into the kinetta head. In anycase, it's an encouraging proof of concept.

EDIT: ok, it looks like you would just need an HD-SDI to fibre-optic converter to use the kinetta magazine. no idea where you'd find one of those though...
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