Editing 24F

[Nick Hiltgen]

I had read earlier that apple was "supposed" to be announcing the ability to cut in 24F mode of the camera, which if it is as good as soom people say would mean that there's a lot of information that would need to be brought in and spit out. That being said, is there anything concrete out yet that says how we'll be able to edit this footage? (note: I mean the 24F footage not the regular 1080i stuff)

[David Newman]

All NLE will be upgradable to support whatever pulldown is applied (2:3:3:2 or 2:3:2:3.) On the PC, Aspect HD / Prospect HD support 24p extraction from HDV using 2:3:2:3 pulldown today, we will add the other pulldown if needed (Canon please tell developers in advance of launch.) A expect Apple to upgrade FCP soon.

[Nick Hiltgen]

Thanks David, I'm still new to the capturing HDV thing (hmm I guess everyone's still pretty new at it for that matter eh?) And adding yet another format just confused the heck out of me. I imagine that this process will still allow for the tapes to be played back over an HDV tape deck like the Sony or JVC, or is this going to only be played back through some sort of canon-ish deck? Or am i making a bigger deal out of the 24F then I should? I know with the HDCAM world you can't pull 24 spf off of a normal HD deck is has to be the sony F version (or the J-H3) or the new SW models but the older decks couldn't support the 24"p". But with this Canon HDV 24F it's more like 60i tricked into 24p so no propriatary equipment will be required?

I think I just confused myself further.

[Chris Hurd]

Since the Canon XL H1 is HDV2 (that is, the Sony 1080i flavor of HDV), then it should play back properly on any Sony HDV deck (right now I believe it's just the M10). What I'm not sure about though is the JVC BR-HD50U. This deck should handle both HDV1 and HDV2 (that is, 720p and 1080i). The older JVC deck, the little one that came out with the HD10 awhile back, most likely is not compatible as it is only 720p... or so I think.

There will be no Canon HDV deck! Not in the immediate or forseeable future anyway.

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

What I'm not sure about though is the JVC BR-HD50U. This deck should handle both HDV1 and HDV2 (that is, 720p and 1080i).

Nope -- no 1080 support at all. I don't think any HDV product plays back both formats digitally...

[Chris Hurd]

Barry, your post caused me to go back and re-read the product lit I have on hand for the BR-HD50U. Looks like you're right... it indicates recording and playback of 720p and 480p only, no 1080i. Where I became confused on this is that it will in fact output to 1080i, say for an HDTV display. But no playback of 1080i. So I believe you're correct, there is no HDV deck yet that will play both 720p and 1080i material.

Of course, in the near future one could always buy an inexpensive consumer HDV2 1080i camcorder and use it as a playback deck, once they start to penetrate the market... but of course outside of the Sony HDR-HC1, no such thing yet exists.

[Barry Green]

They actually have a tiny footnote at the end of the brochure that says "the hd100 and br-hd50 will not play back tapes recorded in the 1080i HDV mode."

[Nick Hiltgen]

Thanks guys, so the m10 will haveyhe ability to play back the 24F footage and cineform and FCP will most likely be able to import the footage through that deck (or the sony camera's or whatever just not JVC) in which case we'll get something comparable to what happened with the 24p in the xl2 and dvx100 since it will still be recorded on an interlaced format.

So basically before november (if I wanted to get the xlh1) I should stock up on some master quality stock, an M10 deck and make sure that my FCP system is screeming fast so that I can shoot and edit a movie in HD. IS this about the size of it?

[Barry Green]

It sounds like that should work. No guarantees though.

[Nick Hiltgen]

::ahem::

So with Barry's new discovery my initial suspecions seem to be a little more founded (much to my surprise). It would seem like we'll need SOME sort of deck by canon or a third party supplier. So maybe there is something to this 24F thing. I'm wondering if it's even more like the HDCAM setup. Did anyone notice if there was more recording time on the tape when set to 24F mode? It seems like this camera is becoming a complete system for studios. Which makes me wonder if a new HD ENG style lens is on it's way for the camera or not. And, oh man wouldn't it be great to have a canon deck that not only could play the 24f footage out but also take the HD-SDI in and convert it to some recordable format... oh man that would never happen but wouldn't it be sweet?

Back to real life though. How good is 24F if you can't import it without using the camera?

[Chris Hurd]

I almost hate to say it because so many people think it's heretical, but I see nothing wrong with using your camera as a playback deck, as long as it's not not seven days a week, eighteen hours a day, or a variety of tapes from other people.

If it's your own tapes shot with that camera, and an occasional several hours per week kind of thing, then why not use the camera for playback... after all there is a VCR mode on it... and in the case of the XL H1 in 24F, it looks like there won't be much of a choice anyway.

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I almost hate to say it because so many people think it's heretical, but I see nothing wrong with using your camera as a playback deck, as long as it's not not seven days a week, eighteen hours a day, or a variety of tapes from other people.

For occasional shooters, that may work just fine, but for those shooting lots of material and/or trying to preserve resale value, not a good option. Also, I like to use a editing deck that plays various formats which the HDV consortium has broken until someone releases a universal deck.

It's just basic economics - $10,000 is too much for most buyers to risk more than occasional use as edit deck.

[Eric Brown]

Posted something here but I took it out. Wrong thread. duh...

[Bill Pryor]

I agree--there's no way I could be tied to using a camera as a deck. There are too many times when one person is editing and another shooting.Also, it's not good for the camera on a long term basis. Besides that, the shuttle and rewind/ff are way too slow on a camera as opposed to a deck.

[Nick Hiltgen]

Oh wait I see how this whole thing works... sure you COULD use your camera as a deck or.... You could go out and buy a deck with an HD-SDI input and use that as a deck and evidentally not have any of the issues that the HDV codec offers in 24F mode... clever...