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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old September 27th, 2005, 01:02 AM   #1
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Why is this forum not part of the HDV acquisition forum?

Just out of curiosity, are we considering this an uncompressed HD cam before an HDV one?
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Old September 27th, 2005, 03:23 AM   #2
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Yes, that's right. It is an HD camera head with an HDV tape transport attached. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=51053
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Old September 27th, 2005, 03:25 AM   #3
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B&H must agree...

... in that a search under "HDV" won't bring it up on their site...
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Old September 27th, 2005, 08:53 AM   #4
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if you go by BnH you proabbaly would be mislead in more ways then one...first the camera is listed under consumer, second there is not one mention that it records to hdv tapes rather it mentions it records to sd dv...

i find the whole "the xl-h1" is not an hdv camcorder a bit misleading...first of all if it is an hdv camcorder then it should be recognized as one, and as one of the best out there...it does say hdv on the camera right...

the word camcorder is short for "camera-recorder" basically a self contained unit made up of a camera and a cassette recorder...

in the xl h1 case that would make it a hdv camera with an hdv cassette recorder, making it an hdv camcorder

if thats not the case then i have bigger issues with the identity less xlh1 because canon does not sell a complete solution, canon should sell some way to record the signal i'm getting out of this camera that attaches to the unit making it a self contained unit, other wise the xl h1 just becomes a video head (and it should be listed as that)...with no way to record the signal because no company out there makes any attachments to this camera that would make it a self contained unit....

also what happens when the sony z2 gets hd-sdi output would that camera also stop being an hdv camera? how about the HDR-HC2, would you still call that an hdv camcoder?

stop all the sillyness...the only true 1/3 chip cam thats not hdv is the hvx200 and that might prove to be a big mistake by panasonic in a year we might see them groveling to get into the hdv consortium...
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Old September 27th, 2005, 09:43 AM   #5
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I agree with the above poster.

Misplaced snobbery I suspect, especially when you consider that the chipset to enable HD-SDI output runs at cost $35 per 1000 units. Maybe it will start a new trend - cant be that difficult or expensive to solder an HDSDI chip over the DSP output

- SHARP take note; since they are the last of the consortium to announce a HDV camera
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Old September 27th, 2005, 09:57 AM   #6
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Heh, the HDV consortium would welcome Panasonic with open arms!

But you're right, this is a confusing identity issue. I think the best way to describe the XL H1 is as "an HD camera head with an HDV tape transport attached."

In my opinion, to say that the H1 is an HDV camcorder is just as misleading as saying that it's not an HDV camcorder.

To position it as an HDV camcorder doesn't tell the whole story. It certainly is an HDV camcorder, but there's a lot more going on, and it's all in the uncompressed HD out to SDI. That's the primary feature of this camera. It's going to be marketed primarily to smaller TV stations, rental houses, and multi-camera event specialists who are attracted to the top features of the H1: the HD-SDI output, TC in and out, Genlock, and complete CCU via the "Console" software. Most of the H1's buyers will seldom if ever use this thing as an HDV camcorder. And at nine thousand bucks, I seriously doubt many people will ever buy one just for its HDV capability. Why would you do that, when you can have two Sony Z1's instead? Also, who would buy an H1 exclusively for field use, when the Panasonic P2 camera is better suited for field recording at the same price? Nope, Canon is well aware that the XL H1 is first and foremost a camera head for studio applications... after all that's what they primarily designed it for.

As for the "no way to record on camera" (other than HDV), I am not too fondly reminded of my field production days about fifteen years ago, lugging around a Panasonic 200CLE. That was considered very much a field camera, your traditional shoulder mount... actually quite comfortable all by itself... but it was not a dockable unit and there was no tape transport onboard. You had to lug around a Sony BVU110 (so-called "portable") 3/4" Umatic deck... and with a six-foot cam-to-deck cable, you wore the whole thing and walked around with it.

Canon can get away with calling it an HD camera, or an HDV camcorder, because it's both. As for other manufacturers including HD-SDI on future models, in my opinion that can't happen soon enough.
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Old September 27th, 2005, 10:02 AM   #7
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Also, just a side note, but we will be re-organizing the forum index page and grouping all of the HD gear together, including the HDV camcorders, the Canon, as well as the Panasonic P2. I'm not sure what it'll be called, since it's more than just HDV, but yes they will all be under one roof, if that helps.
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Old September 27th, 2005, 10:41 AM   #8
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The SONY DSR300 has a 26 pin connector that can be used to feed into any type of a field deck but yet it is still considered a DVCAM camera and not a SD camera head with a DVCAM deck built in. Even if there was a SDI port instead of the 26 pin connector the camera would still be the same as it is now.
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Old September 27th, 2005, 10:51 AM   #9
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Quite right, but how many people use the DSR300 that way? My point is in how the H1 will be used... who will be buying it and what will they use it for. The primary target market, the potential buyers that Canon want to reach with the H1, are those who will use it mostly in studio applications and some limited full-crew field shoots as an HD camera head. That's who they're directly pitching this thing to.
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Old September 27th, 2005, 11:42 AM   #10
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So, when does the camera come out that all the people here are waiting for? Funny, the more I hear about how much Canon is targeting the small studios with this camera, the more I'm thinking maybe it isn't the one for me...or many of us here on DVI.

If it were a couple thousand less, in the range of the JVC & Panny, I would be all over it and think of the SDI out as a "bonus feature" that I probably won't use. It still will be a tough choice this Winter...

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Old September 27th, 2005, 11:51 AM   #11
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I've heard as early as November, but most likely December. And no, I have no plans to get one, as it's not what I'm looking for either. Although in the typical DV Info Net tradition, I hope we have the largest or at least one of the largest online communities for owners of the H1.
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Old September 27th, 2005, 12:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
I've heard as early as November, but most likely December. And no, I have no plans to get one, as it's not what I'm looking for either. Although in the typical DV Info Net tradition, I hope we have the largest or at least one of the largest online communities for owners of the H1.

Gosh, we have to start the rumours already? :-) Chris, are you saying they might have another announcement in Nov/December? I mean, we all know the GL HDV version will be coming out soon. I just wonder if they'll come out with a non-SDI camera that is HDV at a lower price point. Thoughts?

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Old September 27th, 2005, 12:13 PM   #13
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Oh, man... I misread your post! When you said "So, when does the camera come out that all the people here are waiting for?" -- I thought you meant *this* camera, the XL H1, that's why I said Nov./Dec. Heck, I have absolutely no idea when they're going to announce an HDV succesor to the GL2, but there's plenty of speculation (as always) in our Area 51 forum... in particular, see this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=51474

Sorry about that!!
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Old September 27th, 2005, 03:38 PM   #14
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Maybe the forum should be called something like: "One-third inch HD/HDV cameras." They're all 1/3" CCD cameras regardless of features, cost, etc. That would seem a logical grouping to me. As long as you don't use that dreaded nonword "prosumer."
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Old September 27th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #15
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Trust me, if I had my way, that nonword "prosumer" would be struck from the record permanently.
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