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-   -   XLh1 vs. XL2 for a DVD... (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-h-series-hdv-camcorders/56227-xlh1-vs-xl2-dvd.html)

Carl Ny December 17th, 2005 03:12 AM

XLh1 vs. XL2 for a DVD...
 
Hi Im really stoked to hear about the new cam from Canon.

I have some questions to you who have hands on the new H1 and the older XL2:

If my end product will be a SD-DVD, and I will ad a few DV shoots here and there in the project;
1. Will I take advantage of the XLH1 HDV resolution for the SD-DVD?
2. Or should I stick with a XL2 for easier workflow with some extra DV footage.
3. Will I see difference between a XLh1 and the XL2 in a SD-DVD?

( Im using in Final Cut 5.03 )

Looking forward! And thanks for all the good info, great forum!

All the best

Carl

Bob Grant December 17th, 2005 05:30 AM

Well I don't own either of those cameras however in general shooting HDV for SD delivery does have its upside, particularly if you're working in NTSC. You can down res HDVs 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 SD or go direct to the mpeg-2 encoder which will also see the improvement in color sampling.

Mathieu Ghekiere December 17th, 2005 07:58 AM

if your goal is only SD DVD I think you should stick with the XL2, it's the best SD 1/3 inch chip camera on the market, it gives a superb image quality, definately enough for SD DVD.
Why would you pay 9000 dollars extra if you could put all that money in mic's, lights,...?
The XLh1 will be better, no doubt. If it will make much difference in DV, we'll have to see, but I don't think the difference, if you are only sticking in SD, would be worth 9000 dollars.

Carl Ny December 17th, 2005 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere
if your goal is only SD DVD I think you should stick with the XL2, it's the best SD 1/3 inch chip camera on the market, it gives a superb image quality, definately enough for SD DVD.
Why would you pay 9000 dollars extra if you could put all that money in mic's, lights,...?
The XLh1 will be better, no doubt. If it will make much difference in DV, we'll have to see, but I don't think the difference, if you are only sticking in SD, would be worth 9000 dollars.

Thanks,
Sounds fair, but I don´t yet have any of the cams so I have to buy one of them,
either think short and go for the XL2 and save the money for now.
Or go for the HDV XLh1...which is way more expensive but big nice resolution...sleepless nights ;) hmmmm...?
( I will need the lens range of the XL:s )

Shannon Rawls December 17th, 2005 10:48 AM

Carl,

Look at it like this.....

If you were in the Market to buy a Ford Mustang. What do you get? A regular 6-cylinder hardtop plain jane mustang.... OR THE SEXY AND FAST CONVERTIBLE GT 5.0 WITH ALL THE TRIMMINGS?? Just because you may not go 0-60 in 5 seconds in a school zone....it's nice to know you can if you want to! *smile*

Me...I always get the best of the best. I bought a Lexus GS300 in 2000 and I made damn sure it was Black on Black with Navigation. It was the best GS300 I could buy.....and guess what..... I always kicked myself in the ass because I didn't get the GS400!!!

The XL-H1 "IS" an XL2 on nitrous! It can do everything the xl2 can do and more. Obviously it can do High Definition, but it doesn't stop there.....it can has more features and controls as well!

Now...as far as your DVD goes. Shooting HD and downconverting to DV looks better then shooting DV originally. Don't ask me why or how, I am no mathematician.....just beleive me when I tell you IT DOES! I will probably NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER shoot in regualr DV mode. I mean....why? it makes no sense to me. But it's nice to know I can if I ever want to.

*poof*

- ShannonRawls.com

Carl Ny December 18th, 2005 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
Carl,

Look at it like this.....

If you were in the Market to buy a Ford Mustang. What do you get? A regular 6-cylinder hardtop plain jane mustang.... OR THE SEXY AND FAST CONVERTIBLE GT 5.0 WITH ALL THE TRIMMINGS?? Just because you may not go 0-60 in 5 seconds in a school zone....it's nice to know you can if you want to! *smile*

Me...I always get the best of the best. I bought a Lexus GS300 in 2000 and I made damn sure it was Black on Black with Navigation. It was the best GS300 I could buy.....and guess what..... I always kicked myself in the ass because I didn't get the GS400!!!

The XL-H1 "IS" an XL2 on nitrous! It can do everything the xl2 can do and more. Obviously it can do High Definition, but it doesn't stop there.....it can has more features and controls as well!

Now...as far as your DVD goes. Shooting HD and downconverting to DV looks better then shooting DV originally. Don't ask me why or how, I am no mathematician.....just beleive me when I tell you IT DOES! I will probably NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER shoot in regualr DV mode. I mean....why? it makes no sense to me. But it's nice to know I can if I ever want to.

*poof*

- ShannonRawls.com


Nice inspiration there Shannon,
"If you want the ultimate (HDV)...you have to pay the ultimate price" ;)

What really feels good about the H1 is that it can do HD res, and as you said; downcoverting it to SD until HD-DVD comes.
It is a nice cam to own, relatively small compared to Digibeta and bigger production cams that I rent when I need instead,
and the H1 have really nice HDV and HD features, and a cam that you always can have around.

How do you best do the downconversion with this H1 cam;
capture HDV to FCP, then editing in HDV and then from the Master do the downconversion to SD?

Thanks for the peptalk!

/ Carl

Shannon Rawls December 18th, 2005 01:50 AM

Hey Carl,

Naw man...I never edit raw HD footage. I always use a proxy as an Offline and when done, swap out the files with HD for Online.

I used to use DV as a proxy, but I think I am going to start using this Cineform intermediate as a Proxy. I've heard too many good things about it, and some of the HD films showcased at the Hollywood DV Festival used it as well. They had nothing but good things to say about it during the Q&A after their movie plays.

Carl Ny December 18th, 2005 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
Hey Carl,

Naw man...I never edit raw HD footage. I always use a proxy as an Offline and when done, swap out the files with HD for Online.

I used to use DV as a proxy, but I think I am going to start using this Cineform intermediate as a Proxy. I've heard too many good things about it, and some of the HD films showcased at the Hollywood DV Festival used it as well. They had nothing but good things to say about it during the Q&A after their movie plays.

Thanks,
I also do offline-on-line with Digibeta etc.
With the H1 and SDI-HD I also would for sure should use offline-online workflow.
With DV I go fullres all the way and Master through that, since the file size is so small.
But how much is one hour of HDV from the H1 through firewire to disk in gb?

Thanks again

/ Carl

Bob Grant December 18th, 2005 06:30 AM

HDV is the same file size as DV, it's all 25Mb/Sec.

Carl Ny December 18th, 2005 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant
HDV is the same file size as DV, it's all 25Mb/Sec.

Yep, then it´s just to hook up a Lacie disk and go fullres-HDV all the way from the H1,
and then downconvers into SD.

Thanks

Carl

Shannon Rawls December 18th, 2005 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Ny
Yep, then its just to hook up a Lacie disk and go fullres-HDV all the way from the H1,
and then downconvers into SD.

Thanks

Carl

Just cause it's the same file size don't mean it's easy to cut. HDV is a processor eating codec. If you have the super computer to cut HDV natively then great, but if not....you'll still need to do an offline. Plus, HDV is not exactly the best codec to go through a bunch of changes and filters, and transitions, and generations either. I would persoanlly make HDV your master capture, and then change it immediately to something else, like Cineform. Search this form and read all about what I am talking about.

- ShannonRawls.com

Carl Ny December 18th, 2005 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
Just cause it's the same file size don't mean it's easy to cut. HDV is a processor eating codec. If you have the super computer to cut HDV natively then great, but if not....you'll still need to do an offline. Plus, HDV is not exactly the best codec to go through a bunch of changes and filters, and transitions, and generations either. I would persoanlly make HDV your master capture, and then change it immediately to something else, like Cineform. Search this form and read all about what I am talking about.

- ShannonRawls.com

Ok, thanks. I haven´t done my homework, I just read the manual in FCP and found that the program nicely edit HDV native frame by frame, nice Apple!
Thanks again, I will look around for more HDV workflow...


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