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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old November 17th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #61
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Dave , I agree with Mick. I've only used the Sony HDV 63min. Digital master tapes. Have never seen a dropout. But also do what Josh suggests....pick a manufacturer and stay with the brand.

Also...nice thing about the Sony HDV...comes in a library case...so It's bigger than than a typical DV tape for labeling...etc.

Welcome to the forum !!!
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Old November 18th, 2007, 01:17 AM   #62
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Panasonic AMQ for me and zero dropouts after 50 over pcs. Just remember to stick to the same tape stock and do not switch brands.

Cheers

WeeHan
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Old November 18th, 2007, 12:40 PM   #63
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For whatever it is worth the new AMQ boxes tout HDV on the label.

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Originally Posted by Yeo Wee Han View Post
Panasonic AMQ for me and zero dropouts after 50 over pcs. Just remember to stick to the same tape stock and do not switch brands.

Cheers

WeeHan
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Old November 18th, 2007, 02:03 PM   #64
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The important thing to remember is that a dropout in HDV can be much worse than in DV because of long-GOP compression. Higher-quality (i.e. more expensive) tapes are less susceptible to this, so if you can't afford dropouts it should be an easy decision.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 04:16 AM   #65
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Thanks...

Well folks, at least I know I need to buy the best I can afford (Sony or Panasonic) - think it'll be sony - only because I have some already and that keeps me in tune with the afforseaid advice to stay common.

Thanks for the advice and tips - you have all been very helpful.
(Love the "This Is Not My Life" (2007) Destrophy video)...

Cheers
Dave
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Old November 19th, 2007, 09:11 AM   #66
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This is a frequently discussed topic, so I've now merged a number of separate threads into a single one.
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Old November 21st, 2007, 01:43 PM   #67
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MARKETING!

Anyone who believes that they need HDV tapes throw away money. I have shot dozens of tapes and did not have a single dropout. Just buy A brand tapes and stick to the same brand. I use the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tape stock. It is around $4 per tape and not a single drop-out so far.

If I would have bought HDV tapes I would have wasted $400 or more.

So my advice: stick with professional grade DV tape.
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Old November 21st, 2007, 09:16 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck View Post
MARKETING!

Anyone who believes that they need HDV tapes throw away money.
As long as we're making sweeping generalizations, I'll say anyone who believes HDV tapes are a waste of money just hasn't experienced one of those HDV dropouts that ruins a one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable shot. Spend any significant amount of time shooting HDV on those cheap tapes and you will, it's a statistical certainty.

I took the cheap route on this documentary I filmed 70+ hours of footage for, using 3$ Sony DVs then $5 Panasonics(cleaning the heads in-between for good measure). Despite keeping my camera and case very clean and dust-free, I've experienced at least 1 or 2 dropouts on almost every single tape- sometimes ruining a great shot.

I've switched to HDV Digital Masters and haven't experienced a dropout yet. Sure they are pricey, but since our projects are destined for broadcast we have to manage that risk.

My advice? If you can't afford ruined shots, buy professional HDV tapes. Even at $15 a pop it's still the most economical way to get HD.
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Old November 22nd, 2007, 07:16 AM   #69
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Horses 4 courses

Have to agree, spent all that money on a good camera only to lose the point on the tapes. A bit like a formula 1 racing car running on diesel or setting yourself up as an executive cheaffuer with a tandem...

Thanks for the ttimely reminder....
dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Hill View Post
As long as we're making sweeping generalizations, I'll say anyone who believes HDV tapes are a waste of money just hasn't experienced one of those HDV dropouts that ruins a one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable shot. Spend any significant amount of time shooting HDV on those cheap tapes and you will, it's a statistical certainty.

I took the cheap route on this documentary I filmed 70+ hours of footage for, using 3$ Sony DVs then $5 Panasonics(cleaning the heads in-between for good measure). Despite keeping my camera and case very clean and dust-free, I've experienced at least 1 or 2 dropouts on almost every single tape- sometimes ruining a great shot.

I've switched to HDV Digital Masters and haven't experienced a dropout yet. Sure they are pricey, but since our projects are destined for broadcast we have to manage that risk.

My advice? If you can't afford ruined shots, buy professional HDV tapes. Even at $15 a pop it's still the most economical way to get HD.
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Old November 23rd, 2007, 05:50 PM   #70
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But you used different tape stocks (brands). And each brand uses different chemicals which has a negative effect on playback.

My camera is only eating Panasonic tapes. At this moment, I see no reason to buy the expensive tapes. And when I am shooting a critical project, I would rather use a Firestore so I have a 1:1 back-up. Problem solved.

And you will earn back the Firestore after 100 tapes.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 05:41 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck View Post
At this moment, I see no reason to buy the expensive tapes. And when I am shooting a critical project, I would rather use a Firestore so I have a 1:1 back-up.

And you will earn back the Firestore after 100 tapes.
I tend to agree with your logic Floris

Personally I don't regard the Panasonic MQs or AMQs as "cheap", they're very good quality tapes, just less expensive than Sony branded HDV tapes.

I depend on the Panasonic tapes for my livelihood, and like a lot of others on these boards, have experienced zero dropouts with HDV material.

I'm personally allergic to Sony tapes after bad experiences in the past, albeit with their bottom end tapes. Obviously the HDV line are high quality, but I do suspect Sony and others are making a killing on them. Do they really cost that much more to manufacture than premium DV tapes?
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Old November 24th, 2007, 08:12 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floris van Eck View Post
But you used different tape stocks (brands). And each brand uses different chemicals which has a negative effect on playback.
Is that fact? I've heard others say it but never seen hard data. I've also heard the exact opposite, that tape chemical/lubricant incompatibility is not an issue these days. All I can go on is firsthand experience.

<<My camera is only eating Panasonic tapes. At this moment, I see no reason to buy the expensive tapes. And when I am shooting a critical project, I would rather use a Firestore so I have a 1:1 back-up. Problem solved.>>

That is one approach; but if your backup tape may have dropouts it's not quite 1:1, "problem solved".

Bottom line, just do what your personal priorities dictate in regards to buying tape.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 08:36 AM   #73
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I've seen this discussion before...but it goes back to the VHS and HIFI VHS days. Why the big separation between a 2 dollar tape and a 14 dollar tape ?

Although the formula for the tape can be IDENTICAL...there is one major difference....WHERE IT CAME FROM ...on the manufacturing reel.

See, videotape is linear..obviously...and it gets manufactured on a large reel...like a roll of toilet paper. So imagine...the videotape near the hub, or the inner most part, is ultimately compressed with the weight of the rest of the roll.

The outer most videotape is actually stretched slightly ...because of the total diameter of the roll. So the real good stuff...or the "meat" of the quality tape is in the middle.

Sure, they sell the tape near the hub and the outside...but that's not the premium stuff. The premium videotape is that center cut.

Makes sense to me and I have to agree that with HDV and DV...buying the quality or more expensive tape has always provided me with excellent results.

I did try to change from Fuji tape to Panasonic tape on our DVX100A...PISSED. Wow...couldn't figure it out. Talked with our engineer and he replied the same as everyone in this forum has....STICK WITH ONE TAPE.

Anyhow...the roll of videotape was explained to me by a Fuji salesman at NAB many years ago. I can only assume that videotape manufacturing hasn't changed in the way they "accumulate" the tape...but obviously the materials, binding processes, etc... have changed.

Food for thought....but it seemed no one addressed this "quality " issue with why certain tapes are more expensive than others...in the same manufacturers product line. I hope this does.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 09:47 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Martorana View Post
Anyhow...the roll of videotape was explained to me by a Fuji salesman at NAB many years ago. I can only assume that videotape manufacturing hasn't changed in the way they "accumulate" the tape...but obviously the materials, binding processes, etc... have changed.

Food for thought....but it seemed no one addressed this "quality " issue with why certain tapes are more expensive than others...in the same manufacturers product line. I hope this does.
Tape quality is the subject of numerous recurring threads on this forum and the tape manufacturing process, center cut vs. outside, etc. actually has been described by others in several threads; but what it implies is a higher grade material with decreased risk of errors.

If anyone has actual scientific data on chemicals, lubricants, and compatibility re. DV and HDV tape, that might help demystify this topic.
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Old November 24th, 2007, 11:51 AM   #75
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I would ask to impossible

It would be great if manufacturers could show some compassion (and sense) and put some info up here - or anywhere else come to that about their tapes / processes etc...

For now we have to rely on the friendship of those willing to submit what they know - and that is exceptionally valuable to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Hill View Post
Tape quality is the subject of numerous recurring threads on this forum and the tape manufacturing process, center cut vs. outside, etc. actually has been described by others in several threads; but what it implies is a higher grade material with decreased risk of errors.

If anyone has actual scientific data on chemicals, lubricants, and compatibility re. DV and HDV tape, that might help demystify this topic.
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