XL-H1 = Great low light...No Grain.....Great for Videographers!

Ashley Hosking · January 4th, 2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

(flipping through my papers) I don't see where you paid your licensing fee to use that Ms. Ashley!

- ShannonRawls.com
*smile*

Hmm umm yeah ahh... Blame the free trade agreement the US and Australia have *big grin*

Umm whats up with the Ms Ashley?!?!? I think you ment to put Mr Ashley. If I upset you with the whole "*smile*" thing you could at least keep my gender intact LOL

Mr Shannon you can just call me Ash. *smile*

Alexander Nikishin · January 4th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

MORAL OF THE STORY......

The Canon XL-H1 gets allot better low-light performance then the Sony Z1U. For those people shooting weddings or videographers who need to get a clean shot at a dark smoky night club, you'll be one happy shooter with the XL-H1.

The Sony Z1U gets good low light with gain turned up because whatever the hell they are doing in that camera, it seems like I don't see the dancing grain until I get up at +18db where it is obvious. Plus the Sony has that HYPERGAIN_+36db, setting which I have used and have saved my ass on two occasions. The Canon doesn't have that whatsoever!

ok. that's all folks!

- ShannonRawls.com

Shannon, you can't make a fair assesment of the two cams by just lookin through the lcd's and saying...hey this one looks brighter and this one looks grainy. On camera lcds are always strangely different from one another in the brightness department. So this is an unfair assesment unless you actually check this footage out in an NLE. Also, it'd be real nice if you posted a shot from the comparison, pereferably a shot of a female laying on a bed so we can also have a fair ASSesment ourselves.

Jim Morris · January 4th, 2006, 07:33 PM

I agree. Shannon you have both of those camera's on hand and are posting quite often, throw us all a bone with a clip or two. It seens as if you are playing with those cameras alot and have some spare time. Do DVi a little extra service
and lets see what those babies got. We might even settle for a clip without your fine lady on the bed :)

Shannon Rawls · January 4th, 2006, 07:53 PM

Alex & Jim,

I'm not some bonehead who owns two brand new cameras that never ever get hours put on the drum. I'm a bonehead who knows what they look like like the back of my hand (especially the Sony Z1) *smile*

My cameras are dialed in so that when I look at the lcd...I KNOW EXACTLY what they will look like on my HD monitor AND in Sony Vegas and ultimately a DVD. I know the Z1 so well I can look at the LCD and tell someone --->"you need to turn down the brightness a notch because that's not what it's going to look like when you capture the footage"...yea, I'm that in-tune with the Z1U after owning it since January 28th, 2005.

Same goes for the XL-H1. I don't know it like I know the Z1, but my 'fresh out the box' tests have shown the LCD to actually be a tad bit 'darker' then the actual footage ends up being on my HD monitor, but exact on my computer monitor. So now I have matched the LCD to my field monitor that is matched to the footage.

So rest assured. When I look at the viewfinders on my cameras....I know what I am seeing.

and SPARE TIME?
what the hell is that?? *smile* I have NONE of that...I am here prepping for upcoming shows. I just pop in here every 30 minutes or so and stay abreast of the discussions. Plus I type 55 words per minute, so It's easy to seem like I have a bunch of time, but honestly, I'm on the phone most of the day. *smile* No time to capture cars driving up and down my street or birds perched on my neighbors roof. Everybody is providing plenty of that kinda stuff. When you see my clips...you will see a MOVIE.

- ShannonRawls.com

Jim Morris · January 4th, 2006, 09:03 PM

I don't mean to insult you Shannon you do offer some great advice around here, however you are the proud owner of a $9000 camcorder that is cutting edge. You must have used it around the house (like you said in the bedroom) and loaded some sample footage into your NLE system just to see what your money got you right. All I am saying is to post some of that raw unedited footage even if it is only 10 seconds. You hold in your hands something new that most of us are extreamly eager to see samples from and those samples are very few. You post how great the HL H1 is but a lot of us can not SEE this since we don't own one. Those clips I long to see may help many actually buy one fo these cutting edge cams. I can't wait to see what this camera will do movie wise for you I bet it will be great but by then some of the wow factor will be gone. All I am saying is let our eyes see what your eyes see. Over in the HVX200 forum the guy from japan is busting his butt to bring some very helpful clips for all to see. I know you post in that forum as well since you are considering purchasing one and I am sure those clips will help you make up your mind. Help others make up thier mind on the XL H1

Shannon Rawls · January 4th, 2006, 10:15 PM

Jim,

My brutha. You got the wrong guy. I'm not the Black version of Kaku. I'm sorry.
I just don't have the time, patience, web space or bandwidth to go out and shoot some random footage, capture it with my trial version softwares, Open Vegas, cut it, down convert it, upload it to my server and stream it on the internet. Plus, I use 4 lines of Vonage here at my office bro! *smile* I need as much of my DSL bandwidth as I can get for my incoming/outgoing phone calls. No time to upload 100 megs of corny birds i shot in front of my office. download from you guys, YES, upload, no.

Look at Barlows footage: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56677
or peep some of Lauris footage: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56642

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE THIS MAN SOME FOOTAGE!!! *smile*

I'm sorry Jim. Please don't be mad at me.

- ShannonRawls.com

Jim Morris · January 4th, 2006, 11:10 PM

No worries Shannon and I am sorry for seeming a little harsh. I get a bit techno crazy at times. I look foward to your future projects since you peeked my interest. And like Shannon said someone get me some footage :)

Barlow Elton · January 5th, 2006, 02:46 AM

I took my stuff down for a while.

There are 3 clips, 2 are 24F, one is 1080i. They will be obvious. This is just me goofin' around with my kids at the local dealer. They let me take the H1 out in the parking lot and shoot a little before they closed. I was hunting focus in manual mode, so forgive the sloppiness. It was my first time with the camera, and I didn't have time to fiddle with the focus assist stuff.

You'll need the VLC player or if you're on PC, the latest WMP works also

www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton

Shawn Alyasiri · January 5th, 2006, 08:58 AM

The thread took a couple of Uturns - I was hoping to get some insight on a previous post. I'm going to resubmit it, all respect to the forum intended:

Shannon,

Can you report how they compare when you've zoomed in all of the way?

I've got the Z1 and was quite fond of it's low light capability (for HDV that is), certainly compared to my HD100. However, the Z1 loses a bit when zoomed in (which I thought was f/2.8). To use it on my second mini35 adapter, I need to zoom in almost all the way, which puts it around f/2.6.

As I read the specs on the Canon, I thought it was f/3.5 zoomed in, so even slower, but certainly more zoom capability than the Z1.

So, I'd be curious how it's doing in a lower light scenario when zoomed all the way in (presuming f/3.5, rather than f/1.6 wide), and what your confidence would be in taking it into a lower light venue every once in a while, without lights (live event, say a concert, wedding balcony, etc). Having the nice gain structure you reported would certainly help things...

Lastly, can you confirm the gain setting capabilities as it's currently shipping - is it every 3db (-3, 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15)? I thought there were gaps in the numbers on the spec sheet, and would like to know what you thought of the picture at higher gain levels, while still zoomed in. I hate gain like everyone, but sometimes its a necessary evil, and would like to know what the threshold levels are for decent pictures. I've used the Z1 around 12db in a pinch, and been very impressed - don't care for much gain on the HD100.

Thanks very much for your reports,

Shawn Alyasiri

Shannon Rawls · January 5th, 2006, 10:51 AM

Shawn,

I'm not a test junkie and if I start doing personal tests now...they wil start flowing in like i'm a support center or something. So let's wait until the shootout for specific requests.

The random tests that you get from me, is just stuff that I happen to be curious about at the time.

- ShannonRawls.com

Ashley Hosking · January 5th, 2006, 06:08 PM

Shawn,

The gain settings on the XL H1 are -3, Auto, 0, +3, +6, +12, +18... As for grainy picture (in the short time I got to "play" with an XL H1) I wouldn't wanna go past +6 but like you I hate gain so I guess different people have different ideas on it.

I would want to stay on 0db! or better yet -3db!

January 4th, 2006, 07:53 PM	#34
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Alex & Jim, I'm not some bonehead who owns two brand new cameras that never ever get hours put on the drum. I'm a bonehead who knows what they look like like the back of my hand (especially the Sony Z1) smile My cameras are dialed in so that when I look at the lcd...I KNOW EXACTLY what they will look like on my HD monitor AND in Sony Vegas and ultimately a DVD. I know the Z1 so well I can look at the LCD and tell someone --->"you need to turn down the brightness a notch because that's not what it's going to look like when you capture the footage"...yea, I'm that in-tune with the Z1U after owning it since January 28th, 2005. Same goes for the XL-H1. I don't know it like I know the Z1, but my 'fresh out the box' tests have shown the LCD to actually be a tad bit 'darker' then the actual footage ends up being on my HD monitor, but exact on my computer monitor. So now I have matched the LCD to my field monitor that is matched to the footage. So rest assured. When I look at the viewfinders on my cameras....I know what I am seeing. and SPARE TIME? what the hell is that?? smile I have NONE of that...I am here prepping for upcoming shows. I just pop in here every 30 minutes or so and stay abreast of the discussions. Plus I type 55 words per minute, so It's easy to seem like I have a bunch of time, but honestly, I'm on the phone most of the day. smile No time to capture cars driving up and down my street or birds perched on my neighbors roof. Everybody is providing plenty of that kinda stuff. When you see my clips...you will see a MOVIE. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 4th, 2006, 10:15 PM	#36
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Jim, My brutha. You got the wrong guy. I'm not the Black version of Kaku. I'm sorry. I just don't have the time, patience, web space or bandwidth to go out and shoot some random footage, capture it with my trial version softwares, Open Vegas, cut it, down convert it, upload it to my server and stream it on the internet. Plus, I use 4 lines of Vonage here at my office bro! smile I need as much of my DSL bandwidth as I can get for my incoming/outgoing phone calls. No time to upload 100 megs of corny birds i shot in front of my office. download from you guys, YES, upload, no. Look at Barlows footage: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56677 or peep some of Lauris footage: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56642 WILL SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE THIS MAN SOME FOOTAGE!!! smile I'm sorry Jim. Please don't be mad at me. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 5th, 2006, 08:58 AM	#39
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	zoomed in - light loss The thread took a couple of Uturns - I was hoping to get some insight on a previous post. I'm going to resubmit it, all respect to the forum intended: Shannon, Can you report how they compare when you've zoomed in all of the way? I've got the Z1 and was quite fond of it's low light capability (for HDV that is), certainly compared to my HD100. However, the Z1 loses a bit when zoomed in (which I thought was f/2.8). To use it on my second mini35 adapter, I need to zoom in almost all the way, which puts it around f/2.6. As I read the specs on the Canon, I thought it was f/3.5 zoomed in, so even slower, but certainly more zoom capability than the Z1. So, I'd be curious how it's doing in a lower light scenario when zoomed all the way in (presuming f/3.5, rather than f/1.6 wide), and what your confidence would be in taking it into a lower light venue every once in a while, without lights (live event, say a concert, wedding balcony, etc). Having the nice gain structure you reported would certainly help things... Lastly, can you confirm the gain setting capabilities as it's currently shipping - is it every 3db (-3, 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15)? I thought there were gaps in the numbers on the spec sheet, and would like to know what you thought of the picture at higher gain levels, while still zoomed in. I hate gain like everyone, but sometimes its a necessary evil, and would like to know what the threshold levels are for decent pictures. I've used the Z1 around 12db in a pinch, and been very impressed - don't care for much gain on the HD100. Thanks very much for your reports, Shawn Alyasiri

January 5th, 2006, 10:51 AM	#40
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Shawn, I'm not a test junkie and if I start doing personal tests now...they wil start flowing in like i'm a support center or something. So let's wait until the shootout for specific requests. The random tests that you get from me, is just stuff that I happen to be curious about at the time. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 4th, 2006, 07:33 PM	#33
Jim Morris New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6	I agree. Shannon you have both of those camera's on hand and are posting quite often, throw us all a bone with a clip or two. It seens as if you are playing with those cameras alot and have some spare time. Do DVi a little extra service and lets see what those babies got. We might even settle for a clip without your fine lady on the bed :)

January 4th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#35
Jim Morris New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6	I don't mean to insult you Shannon you do offer some great advice around here, however you are the proud owner of a $9000 camcorder that is cutting edge. You must have used it around the house (like you said in the bedroom) and loaded some sample footage into your NLE system just to see what your money got you right. All I am saying is to post some of that raw unedited footage even if it is only 10 seconds. You hold in your hands something new that most of us are extreamly eager to see samples from and those samples are very few. You post how great the HL H1 is but a lot of us can not SEE this since we don't own one. Those clips I long to see may help many actually buy one fo these cutting edge cams. I can't wait to see what this camera will do movie wise for you I bet it will be great but by then some of the wow factor will be gone. All I am saying is let our eyes see what your eyes see. Over in the HVX200 forum the guy from japan is busting his butt to bring some very helpful clips for all to see. I know you post in that forum as well since you are considering purchasing one and I am sure those clips will help you make up your mind. Help others make up thier mind on the XL H1

January 4th, 2006, 11:10 PM	#37
Jim Morris New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6	No worries Shannon and I am sorry for seeming a little harsh. I get a bit techno crazy at times. I look foward to your future projects since you peeked my interest. And like Shannon said someone get me some footage :)

January 5th, 2006, 02:46 AM	#38
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	I took my stuff down for a while. There are 3 clips, 2 are 24F, one is 1080i. They will be obvious. This is just me goofin' around with my kids at the local dealer. They let me take the H1 out in the parking lot and shoot a little before they closed. I was hunting focus in manual mode, so forgive the sloppiness. It was my first time with the camera, and I didn't have time to fiddle with the focus assist stuff. You'll need the VLC player or if you're on PC, the latest WMP works also www.homepage.mac.com/mrbarlowelton

January 5th, 2006, 06:08 PM	#41
Ashley Hosking Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Shawn, The gain settings on the XL H1 are -3, Auto, 0, +3, +6, +12, +18... As for grainy picture (in the short time I got to "play" with an XL H1) I wouldn't wanna go past +6 but like you I hate gain so I guess different people have different ideas on it. I would want to stay on 0db! or better yet -3db!