Viewfinder underscan at DVinfo.net

Brad Smith · February 4th, 2006, 03:56 AM

G'day all, first post.... by way of brief introduction, I'm an ENG camera operator in Australia, just bought a xlh1 to use to shoot an indie doco in a couple of weeks.

I could well be missing something (not yet finished the manual) but when I use the 90% safe zone, I can only see the top maker, the others seem to be out of the frame. Is it me or am I not seeing the whole frame in the viewfinder...... that would not be cool. Any feedback would be welcome, I've got two weeks to get this thing hummin before I start shooting for a 1 hour doco.

One more thing I've tried, but I can't turn off most of the crap I don't really need in the viewfinder (in manual mode), are there any fixes that aren't in the manual?

Brad Smith.

Kevin Wild · February 4th, 2006, 10:10 AM

And the answer is "not cool." The viewfinder on this "professional" deck does indeed NOT show you the entire picture. It drives me crazy at times. Make sure you shoot with that extra 10% in mind.

KW

Daniel Epstein · February 4th, 2006, 10:21 AM

Please please send your comments on to Canon. I notcied the same thing and have been talking to Canon about other things as well. The reponse from them is customer feedback will be taken into consideration as they improve the product.

Ashley Hosking · February 6th, 2006, 12:25 AM

G'day Brad,

Another aussie here :)

Yes as Kevin pointed out you are indeed correct, Only 90% of the image is viewable (which is really going to take some getting used to as most of the gear I use is Thompson HD and Sony SD broadcast gear which generally shows you about 10% overscan) I confirmed this with a Canon rep at Digital Media Festival's XLH1 launch at Darling Harbour a few months back.

Whereabouts in aus did you buy your camera from if you dont mind me asking?

I am seriously considering purchasing one of these cameras soon but waiting for opinions on what problems people may be facing first. Also I am waiting for a more competitive price then $13,999.

My other option is the JVC-**7000** 1080p HD camera that is being released later this year, hopefully JVC wont disappoint.

Cheers,
Ashley

Richard Alvarez · February 6th, 2006, 07:37 AM

You can use the FU-1000 monochrome viewfinder, and get full scan.

Alister Chapman · February 6th, 2006, 08:39 AM

Anyone got a price for the FU-1000

Vincent Rozenberg · February 6th, 2006, 09:12 AM

$ 1,549.95 @ B&H Photo Video.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

But are you guys sure that its gonna work with the H1?

Alister Chapman · February 6th, 2006, 10:09 AM

It says it will in the manual and there is a dedicated socket for it. But thats not cheap. Guess if I shop around I could get it a little cheaper.

Tony Davies-Patrick · February 6th, 2006, 12:01 PM

Brad, I don't have the H1 to try, but can't you (as in the the non HD XL body)...just press the EVF display button twice to turn off the unwanted viewfinder information and give a clear view?

Gregory S. Ouellette · February 6th, 2006, 02:58 PM

these go all the time on ebay in very good condition for $700-900. that is where i got mine and got it for $550. just dont make the same mistake as me and remove it while the camera is on. it blew the internal "fuse" and i had to send it to canon. i fear it will be $175 for the work plus shipping/insurance both ways!!
other than that it was very nice on my xl1. i think there is one or two on ebay now.

regards,
greg

Ashley Hosking · February 6th, 2006, 09:08 PM

Anyone know what the res of the FU1000 is?

EDIT: Nevermind I just found it... 500 lines wide... Some nice features but It was designed for the XL1 and I doubt that kinda res is enough for HD, IMHO.

Alister Chapman · February 7th, 2006, 05:59 AM

500 lines is about as good as you will get on any small VF. The standard H1 VF is only about 300 lines resolution.

Richard Alvarez · February 7th, 2006, 07:31 AM

Ashley

The 500 lines res is a great improvement over the LCD. Not to mention it's a true CRT, has peaking controlls and underscan. It's really the best viewfinder available at the moment.

Barry Gregg · February 7th, 2006, 09:17 AM

I tried my FU-1000 on a demo XL H1 and the image in the viewfinder was very small. It appeared to cover on a partial portion of the full CRT. It did display the 16:9 correctly, however. I wasn't aware that the standard viewfinder only gave a 90% image at the time so I didn't compare the color VF to the FU-1000 for coverage.

Still considering, but I'm tentatively planning to pick-up an H1 this Friday.

Brad Smith · February 11th, 2006, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick

Brad, I don't have the H1 to try, but can't you (as in the the non HD XL body)...just press the EVF display button twice to turn off the unwanted viewfinder information and give a clear view?

Indeed Tony you are correct. How silly I felt when I worked that out!! As for the underscan, I'm talking to Canon here in Oz, I fear when they work out what I'm telling them is an actual issue (rather than me not knowing how to operate the camera!), the response will be less enthusiastic.

Also, as for the idea that I should have to purchase another viewfinder to see the full image! I won't be happy if Canon come back to me with that answer!The XL-H1is the most expensive Camcorder in its class (by a good bit), you shouldn't have to purchase an aftermarket viewfinder to see the whole image, especially when one of the functions available is a 90% frame marker which is not even fully covered by the viewfinder!

Thanks all for your replies, I'll post again wiht any results I get from Canon

Brad Smith.

February 4th, 2006, 03:56 AM	#1
Brad Smith New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 14	Viewfinder underscan G'day all, first post.... by way of brief introduction, I'm an ENG camera operator in Australia, just bought a xlh1 to use to shoot an indie doco in a couple of weeks. I could well be missing something (not yet finished the manual) but when I use the 90% safe zone, I can only see the top maker, the others seem to be out of the frame. Is it me or am I not seeing the whole frame in the viewfinder...... that would not be cool. Any feedback would be welcome, I've got two weeks to get this thing hummin before I start shooting for a 1 hour doco. One more thing I've tried, but I can't turn off most of the crap I don't really need in the viewfinder (in manual mode), are there any fixes that aren't in the manual? Brad Smith.

February 6th, 2006, 12:25 AM	#4
Ashley Hosking Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	G'day Brad, Another aussie here :) Yes as Kevin pointed out you are indeed correct, Only 90% of the image is viewable (which is really going to take some getting used to as most of the gear I use is Thompson HD and Sony SD broadcast gear which generally shows you about 10% overscan) I confirmed this with a Canon rep at Digital Media Festival's XLH1 launch at Darling Harbour a few months back. Whereabouts in aus did you buy your camera from if you dont mind me asking? I am seriously considering purchasing one of these cameras soon but waiting for opinions on what problems people may be facing first. Also I am waiting for a more competitive price then $13,999. My other option is the JVC-7000 1080p HD camera that is being released later this year, hopefully JVC wont disappoint. Cheers, Ashley __________________ "If we build RED they will come"

February 6th, 2006, 08:39 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Anyone got a price for the FU-1000 __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 6th, 2006, 10:09 AM	#8
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	It says it will in the manual and there is a dedicated socket for it. But thats not cheap. Guess if I shop around I could get it a little cheaper. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 6th, 2006, 12:01 PM	#9
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	Brad, I don't have the H1 to try, but can't you (as in the the non HD XL body)...just press the EVF display button twice to turn off the unwanted viewfinder information and give a clear view? __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

February 4th, 2006, 10:10 AM	#2
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	And the answer is "not cool." The viewfinder on this "professional" deck does indeed NOT show you the entire picture. It drives me crazy at times. Make sure you shoot with that extra 10% in mind. KW

February 4th, 2006, 10:21 AM	#3
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Please please send your comments on to Canon. I notcied the same thing and have been talking to Canon about other things as well. The reponse from them is customer feedback will be taken into consideration as they improve the product.

February 6th, 2006, 07:37 AM	#5
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	You can use the FU-1000 monochrome viewfinder, and get full scan.

February 6th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#7
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	$ 1,549.95 @ B&H Photo Video. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search But are you guys sure that its gonna work with the H1?

February 6th, 2006, 02:58 PM	#10
Gregory S. Ouellette Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 42	fu 1000 these go all the time on ebay in very good condition for $700-900. that is where i got mine and got it for $550. just dont make the same mistake as me and remove it while the camera is on. it blew the internal "fuse" and i had to send it to canon. i fear it will be $175 for the work plus shipping/insurance both ways!! other than that it was very nice on my xl1. i think there is one or two on ebay now. regards, greg

February 6th, 2006, 09:08 PM	#11
Ashley Hosking Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Anyone know what the res of the FU1000 is? EDIT: Nevermind I just found it... 500 lines wide... Some nice features but It was designed for the XL1 and I doubt that kinda res is enough for HD, IMHO. __________________ "If we build RED they will come"

February 7th, 2006, 05:59 AM	#12
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	500 lines is about as good as you will get on any small VF. The standard H1 VF is only about 300 lines resolution. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 7th, 2006, 07:31 AM	#13
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Ashley The 500 lines res is a great improvement over the LCD. Not to mention it's a true CRT, has peaking controlls and underscan. It's really the best viewfinder available at the moment.

February 7th, 2006, 09:17 AM	#14
Barry Gregg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 104	I tried my FU-1000 on a demo XL H1 and the image in the viewfinder was very small. It appeared to cover on a partial portion of the full CRT. It did display the 16:9 correctly, however. I wasn't aware that the standard viewfinder only gave a 90% image at the time so I didn't compare the color VF to the FU-1000 for coverage. Still considering, but I'm tentatively planning to pick-up an H1 this Friday.