Canon HDV in Sony HDV playback??? at DVinfo.net

February 13th, 2006, 11:44 PM

Aloha,

I was under the impression that both Canon and Sony were part of the same consortium and the playback of HDV 1080i would be consistent.
Not true to my recent dismay.

I recently bought 2 of the XLH1's and have been using them for large (9'X12') imag. They are excellent and a bargain even in NTSC mode.

What I am confused about is that my HDV recordings from my sony equipment will play back in the canon's but the HDV recordings from the canon's will not playback in any of my sony HDV equipment. I have 2 different cameras and the sony HDV deck.

I can see timecode rolling and an image when scanning but PB is black.

My guess is this may have something to do with an HDCP thang, but it is only a guess. Is anyone aware of why this would be, and is there possibly a way to save my Sony gear from being sold. Cuz the Canon's are gonna stay.

Mahalo

Chris Hurd · February 13th, 2006, 11:51 PM

What frame rate was your XL H1 set to... was it 60i, 30F or 24F?

The Sony gear came out before the Canon XL H1 did, before the Canon Frame modes (30F and 24F) were finalized, so your Sony M10 deck doesn't know how to play those frame rates.

Paul Doherty · February 14th, 2006, 02:50 AM

Over here in PAL land my Canon 50i tapes play just fine in my FX1, and I've seen other people make the same comment, so your problem doesn't seem to be a general one.

If you've got 2 Canons and 3 Sonys then it seems to eliminate one rogue machine, but I can't make any suggestions as to the cause. However I would be interested to know what the problem is, if you manage to track it down.

Jon Bickford · February 14th, 2006, 03:48 AM

yeah i've played back 1080/60i on a sony a few times now.

Bill Taka · February 14th, 2006, 09:28 AM

Chris is right and this has been discussed before. I believe there isn't a deck made that can play the 30f and 24f -yet. I shoot outdoors and 60i is just what I want. Slower frame rates are overrated and "they give me the jitters". For a good price I'll take that deck off your hands.

Daniel Epstein · February 14th, 2006, 10:18 AM

This is one of the most under publicized issues with the Canon. HDV does not do frame rates the same way DV did with 30 and 24. In HDV, 60I is the only sure way to be compatible with the Sony decks at this time. What I don't understand is why Canon can't warn its customers before they discover it themselves

Bill Pryor · February 14th, 2006, 10:29 AM

If they warned you, you might not buy the camera.
I noticed in the new B&H catalog that Sony has two new HDV decks listed. I haven't checked them out yet. It could be that things are changing. Also, JVC has a small, inexpensive deck to play it's 24p stuff. There will have to be a deck for the Canon camera to survive, so I think it's just a matter of time.

Daniel Epstein · February 14th, 2006, 10:40 AM

If Canon told you what works and what doesn't you could make an informed decision and not expect something to work when it won't. Since no one seems to like the Sony version of 24 in HDV it is not as much of an issue as you think. If I need to shoot 30F or 24F in HDV I have to plan a little differently my post path. It is not as easy as DV in this aspect but it can be dealt with.
As for the new decks we can only hope they have made real nice with Sony but I am not sure it is in Sony's interest to solve Canon's issue unless it helps them sell a lot more decks.

February 14th, 2006, 09:26 PM

Thank you for your feedback.

I have ensured that the camera is in 60i, recorded fresh footage and still the same issue. Since it seems others are able to playback their tapes, I will follow up with canon directly as I am preparing to send the cameras in for the 50i upgrade option. If I recieve any additional info on this in the near future I will alert you all.

Aloha

Nick Hiltgen · February 15th, 2006, 08:13 AM

Bill where in the new catalog is the new HDV decks. I would be super excited if I could find one that played back the canon 24F footage.

Dan Euritt · February 15th, 2006, 01:35 PM

Tore Nordahl just wrote up a nice little outline of the hdv spec, now i see why people are having these playback issues... i guess that every manufacturer is free to record whatever framerate they want, but still call it hdv?:

http://www.coax.tv/

February 13th, 2006, 11:44 PM	#1
Michael Clark Posts: n/a	Canon HDV in Sony HDV playback??? Aloha, I was under the impression that both Canon and Sony were part of the same consortium and the playback of HDV 1080i would be consistent. Not true to my recent dismay. I recently bought 2 of the XLH1's and have been using them for large (9'X12') imag. They are excellent and a bargain even in NTSC mode. What I am confused about is that my HDV recordings from my sony equipment will play back in the canon's but the HDV recordings from the canon's will not playback in any of my sony HDV equipment. I have 2 different cameras and the sony HDV deck. I can see timecode rolling and an image when scanning but PB is black. My guess is this may have something to do with an HDCP thang, but it is only a guess. Is anyone aware of why this would be, and is there possibly a way to save my Sony gear from being sold. Cuz the Canon's are gonna stay. Mahalo

February 13th, 2006, 11:51 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	What frame rate was your XL H1 set to... was it 60i, 30F or 24F? The Sony gear came out before the Canon XL H1 did, before the Canon Frame modes (30F and 24F) were finalized, so your Sony M10 deck doesn't know how to play those frame rates. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 14th, 2006, 03:48 AM	#4
Jon Bickford Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Las Vegas, NV., Los Angeles, CA, Posts: 220	yeah i've played back 1080/60i on a sony a few times now. __________________ Jon Bickford, Trepany Films San Pedro, CA Trephine001@aol.com

February 14th, 2006, 09:26 PM	#9
Michael Clark Posts: n/a	Canon HDV in Sony HDV playback??? Thank you for your feedback. I have ensured that the camera is in 60i, recorded fresh footage and still the same issue. Since it seems others are able to playback their tapes, I will follow up with canon directly as I am preparing to send the cameras in for the 50i upgrade option. If I recieve any additional info on this in the near future I will alert you all. Aloha

February 15th, 2006, 08:13 AM	#10
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Bill where in the new catalog is the new HDV decks. I would be super excited if I could find one that played back the canon 24F footage. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

February 14th, 2006, 02:50 AM	#3
Paul Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sherburn, England Posts: 136	Over here in PAL land my Canon 50i tapes play just fine in my FX1, and I've seen other people make the same comment, so your problem doesn't seem to be a general one. If you've got 2 Canons and 3 Sonys then it seems to eliminate one rogue machine, but I can't make any suggestions as to the cause. However I would be interested to know what the problem is, if you manage to track it down.

February 14th, 2006, 09:28 AM	#5
Bill Taka Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 82	Chris is right and this has been discussed before. I believe there isn't a deck made that can play the 30f and 24f -yet. I shoot outdoors and 60i is just what I want. Slower frame rates are overrated and "they give me the jitters". For a good price I'll take that deck off your hands.

February 14th, 2006, 10:18 AM	#6
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	This is one of the most under publicized issues with the Canon. HDV does not do frame rates the same way DV did with 30 and 24. In HDV, 60I is the only sure way to be compatible with the Sony decks at this time. What I don't understand is why Canon can't warn its customers before they discover it themselves

February 14th, 2006, 10:29 AM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	If they warned you, you might not buy the camera. I noticed in the new B&H catalog that Sony has two new HDV decks listed. I haven't checked them out yet. It could be that things are changing. Also, JVC has a small, inexpensive deck to play it's 24p stuff. There will have to be a deck for the Canon camera to survive, so I think it's just a matter of time.

February 14th, 2006, 10:40 AM	#8
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	If Canon told you what works and what doesn't you could make an informed decision and not expect something to work when it won't. Since no one seems to like the Sony version of 24 in HDV it is not as much of an issue as you think. If I need to shoot 30F or 24F in HDV I have to plan a little differently my post path. It is not as easy as DV in this aspect but it can be dealt with. As for the new decks we can only hope they have made real nice with Sony but I am not sure it is in Sony's interest to solve Canon's issue unless it helps them sell a lot more decks.

February 15th, 2006, 01:35 PM	#11
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	Tore Nordahl just wrote up a nice little outline of the hdv spec, now i see why people are having these playback issues... i guess that every manufacturer is free to record whatever framerate they want, but still call it hdv?: http://www.coax.tv/