To stabilize or not to stabilize, that 'tis the questione? at DVinfo.net

Yi Fong Yu · February 27th, 2006, 01:34 PM

i noticed the 'm2t's i shot at a recent wedding was awful when i use the greenbox automode (which enables optical image stabilizer [OIS] by default). there was a LOT of shaking around. if i turn off the stabilizer, would it actually improve the 24f?

anyone? i rent this cam for odd jobs and don't have it to test out. i throw it on auto and assume the auto-everything will takeover.

do most of you shoot handheld by choosing another mod? obviously, practice makes it better, but as i've said, i don't own it. it's pretty damn heavy!

Cole McDonald · February 27th, 2006, 02:32 PM

I always shoot with everything auto turned off that I can. Tripod or hand held. If you have to go handheld, shoot as wide as you can to eliminate some of the hand held wiggle which would be exaggerated by being zoomed in. If you can, lock your arms into your body when shooting hand held as well to give the camera more weight, and turn your body, not just the camera. This will smooth out your pans by involving more and larger muscle groups. The camera must become one with your body, that will help stabilize. If it's a static shot, you can stabilize in post as well.

Chris Hurd · February 27th, 2006, 05:17 PM

Yi, there are two auto modes. Which one are you referring to? In the "Green Box" full auto mode, OIS is always on, no matter what. However in the "A" program auto mode, OIS is on only if it is turned on using the switch at the lens.

Jonas Nystrom · February 27th, 2006, 06:26 PM

If you have access to good stabilization, why not use it? If you don't do panning (where strobing and flicker can occur). If you do handheld static shots - you have really good help with stabilization! And my experience of stabilize in post is not good, often you have to zoom an crop, if you don't like jumping borders. Or what (happy for your opinion!)?

Chris Hurd · February 27th, 2006, 08:40 PM

Handheld in daylight, OIS is a very good thing. Using OIS on a tripod can cause stuttering in pans and zooms. Bright lights at night can introduce unwanted "fireflies" if OIS is on. There is a proper time and place to use OIS, and a proper time and place to leave it off.

Chris Barcellos · February 27th, 2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas Nystrom

If you have access to good stabilization, why not use it? If you don't do panning (where strobing and flicker can occur). If you do handheld static shots - you have really good help with stabilization! And my experience of stabilize in post is not good, often you have to zoom an crop, if you don't like jumping borders. Or what (happy for your opinion!)?

Isn't zooming and cropping happening in OIS on camera anyway ?

Yi Fong Yu · February 27th, 2006, 09:52 PM

it was a night wedding@church. lots of incadescent lights everywhere. the most difficult aspect i had to deal with was that the XL H1 was new and i hadn't held a cam that heavy in 1.5 years prior. thus, because of my extreme flabbiness & being totally out of shape, i wasn't able to endure the 7+ hour shoot. ironically, it got better towards the end because my arm got used to it and after a certain threashhold i was able to obtain fairly steady images.

unfortunatel,y the wedding ceremony itself was towards the beginning and thus i've had to resort to software IS solutions.

meanwhile, intellectually i undestand the holding elbow close to body and all those good posture when holding cams for a long time rules... but physically, my god that XL H1s is heavy! =). i do have to lift weights and get in shape.

thus, object lesson? get in shape =).

Jonas Nystrom · February 28th, 2006, 01:55 AM

What I mean Chris, if you stabilize in post, you have to put an anchor point in your picture. Then you have movements of the frame, with anchor point static - which will put the borders around "titlesafe" and out in motion. To work around it, you have to zoom in the picture to have some "bleed". And when I've done it have been quite hard to get a nice look.

Chris, what is "fireflies" - I have shot a runway show, hard light, from the brightest to pitch black, lot's of spotlights, with OIS turned on - and result is fantastic in sharpness and movements - and there was pretty much movements on the catwalk.

I think Canon have done a great job with the new OIS!

Jason Murphy · February 28th, 2006, 02:59 AM

The H1 feature Optical Images Stabilization in the stock lense...it should be pretty darned good. Electronic Stabilization however will usually result in some quality loss. At least, that is how I understand it.

Here is a quote from Canon about the stabilization IN the lens:

"Optical image stabilization is the highest method available. Canon's lens design includes a dedicated optical element which shifts up and down and side to side based on motion, so your video always looks smooth, steady, and natural. Whether you are shooting handheld at telephoto or from a moving vehicle, Canon's Optical Image Stabilizer effectively handles unwanted vibration. And since it's optical, there is no loss of image quality -- inevitable with electronic image stabilizers."

Yi Fong Yu · February 28th, 2006, 06:59 AM

thx Jason,

that means i *really* had a bad case of the shakes! =(.

meanwhile, ya'll with heavy cams, how do you get used to it? workout?

Cole McDonald · March 1st, 2006, 07:09 AM

yes. Tht and just keep doing it, it will become natural.

February 27th, 2006, 01:34 PM	#1
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	To stabilize or not to stabilize, that 'tis the questione? i noticed the 'm2t's i shot at a recent wedding was awful when i use the greenbox automode (which enables optical image stabilizer [OIS] by default). there was a LOT of shaking around. if i turn off the stabilizer, would it actually improve the 24f? anyone? i rent this cam for odd jobs and don't have it to test out. i throw it on auto and assume the auto-everything will takeover. do most of you shoot handheld by choosing another mod? obviously, practice makes it better, but as i've said, i don't own it. it's pretty damn heavy! __________________ bow wow wow Last edited by Yi Fong Yu; February 27th, 2006 at 09:47 PM.

February 27th, 2006, 05:17 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Yi, there are two auto modes. Which one are you referring to? In the "Green Box" full auto mode, OIS is always on, no matter what. However in the "A" program auto mode, OIS is on only if it is turned on using the switch at the lens. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 27th, 2006, 06:26 PM	#4
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	Whats wrong with OIS? If you have access to good stabilization, why not use it? If you don't do panning (where strobing and flicker can occur). If you do handheld static shots - you have really good help with stabilization! And my experience of stabilize in post is not good, often you have to zoom an crop, if you don't like jumping borders. Or what (happy for your opinion!)? __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom

February 27th, 2006, 08:40 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Handheld in daylight, OIS is a very good thing. Using OIS on a tripod can cause stuttering in pans and zooms. Bright lights at night can introduce unwanted "fireflies" if OIS is on. There is a proper time and place to use OIS, and a proper time and place to leave it off. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 27th, 2006, 09:52 PM	#7
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	it was a night wedding@church. lots of incadescent lights everywhere. the most difficult aspect i had to deal with was that the XL H1 was new and i hadn't held a cam that heavy in 1.5 years prior. thus, because of my extreme flabbiness & being totally out of shape, i wasn't able to endure the 7+ hour shoot. ironically, it got better towards the end because my arm got used to it and after a certain threashhold i was able to obtain fairly steady images. unfortunatel,y the wedding ceremony itself was towards the beginning and thus i've had to resort to software IS solutions. meanwhile, intellectually i undestand the holding elbow close to body and all those good posture when holding cams for a long time rules... but physically, my god that XL H1s is heavy! =). i do have to lift weights and get in shape. thus, object lesson? get in shape =). __________________ bow wow wow

February 27th, 2006, 02:32 PM	#2
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	I always shoot with everything auto turned off that I can. Tripod or hand held. If you have to go handheld, shoot as wide as you can to eliminate some of the hand held wiggle which would be exaggerated by being zoomed in. If you can, lock your arms into your body when shooting hand held as well to give the camera more weight, and turn your body, not just the camera. This will smooth out your pans by involving more and larger muscle groups. The camera must become one with your body, that will help stabilize. If it's a static shot, you can stabilize in post as well.

February 28th, 2006, 01:55 AM	#8
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	Cropping What I mean Chris, if you stabilize in post, you have to put an anchor point in your picture. Then you have movements of the frame, with anchor point static - which will put the borders around "titlesafe" and out in motion. To work around it, you have to zoom in the picture to have some "bleed". And when I've done it have been quite hard to get a nice look. Chris, what is "fireflies" - I have shot a runway show, hard light, from the brightest to pitch black, lot's of spotlights, with OIS turned on - and result is fantastic in sharpness and movements - and there was pretty much movements on the catwalk. I think Canon have done a great job with the new OIS! __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom Last edited by Jonas Nystrom; February 28th, 2006 at 02:40 AM.

February 28th, 2006, 02:59 AM	#9
Jason Murphy Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 54	The H1 feature Optical Images Stabilization in the stock lense...it should be pretty darned good. Electronic Stabilization however will usually result in some quality loss. At least, that is how I understand it. Here is a quote from Canon about the stabilization IN the lens: "Optical image stabilization is the highest method available. Canon's lens design includes a dedicated optical element which shifts up and down and side to side based on motion, so your video always looks smooth, steady, and natural. Whether you are shooting handheld at telephoto or from a moving vehicle, Canon's Optical Image Stabilizer effectively handles unwanted vibration. And since it's optical, there is no loss of image quality -- inevitable with electronic image stabilizers."

February 28th, 2006, 06:59 AM	#10
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	thx Jason, that means i really had a bad case of the shakes! =(. meanwhile, ya'll with heavy cams, how do you get used to it? workout? __________________ bow wow wow

March 1st, 2006, 07:09 AM	#11
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	yes. Tht and just keep doing it, it will become natural.