XL-H1 and 3x Zoom XL 3.4-10.2mm problem at DVinfo.net

Roman Teufel · March 7th, 2006, 11:46 AM

Hi XL-H1 users,
I have big problems with the use of the Canon 3x Zoom XL 3.4-10.2mm on my H1. Canon tells us that the old SD lenses of the XL-2 will work on the H1 although Canon dissuades from using SD-lenses in HD-mode because the resolution would not be adequate for HD.
Nevertheless I tested the 3x zoom with very good optical results. But after 1 hour operating of my brand new lens, the communication between the lens and the camera stopped suddenly. The lens did´nt react at all and behaved completely uncontrolled. That means after switching the camera on, the lens reacted for just 3 seconds to the comands of the camera, then freezed and did crazy things like closing or opening iris, or zooming in, or changing focus all by itself. In the end the lens allways stopped in some configuration and could´nt be managed by the camera, whether in automatic mode or manual mode.
So I did send the lens back and got a new one. This time the lens worked about two days and then the same malfunction started. I ordered a third one when the second lens suddenly started working again - for half a day.
By the way, the default 20x zoom HD-lens works fine, also the EF-adapter.

Did somebody experience the same bizarre behaviour of this wide angle lens in combination with the XL-H1?

Any help is welcome since I need the wide angle lens urgently for a production journey beginning end of the week.

Thanks a lot for any advice!!

Regards
Roman Teufel

http://www.rtv-studio.de

Chris Hurd · March 7th, 2006, 12:03 PM

If three identical lenses are each giving the same problem, then I can't help but think that the issue might be on the camera side, not the lens side. Perhaps there is a bad electrical contact on the lens mount? Have you had the H1 body checked out by Canon service?

Roman Teufel · March 7th, 2006, 12:18 PM

Hi Chris,
thanks for reply. The fact is, that the camera communicates to the default 20x zoom fully normal and even the EF-adapter reacts normal to the iris control. I only tested 2 wide angle lenses - with the same malfunction. The third lens is in delivery. The camera body isn´t checked by canon since I need it for the early production journey to the sahara desert.
The strange thing is the fact, that the lens stopped working, then started again to communicate - and stopped function again. I cleaned the contacts without success.
Regards
Roman

Kurth Bousman · March 7th, 2006, 12:45 PM

Roman- sounds like a classic firmware malfunction. If it was simply a contact problem , I doubt if the lens would continue hunting. You probably need to dig deeper into the canon customer support to see if this is indeed so. It sounds familiar to some 3rd party lens firmware problems on some of canons' dslrs, which indeed are firmware issues. Course , it's just a guess. Kurth

Jason Lund · March 15th, 2006, 12:11 PM

Roman,
I am sorry that I do not have a solution to your problem. My reply is to let you know I share in your misery, I have the same problem but on a xl-2 body.This is a huge problem for me this is the lens I tend to use about 90%
of the time for what I do. I am on lens number 2 in as many months but my lens acts dead, no focus,zoom or the ability to adjust the iris and like you my 20x lens works fine. I have contacted canon on this and they said they have not heard of this before and suggested I send my body in with the lens, not an option I have several shoots in the upcoming weeks.

Chris Hurd · March 15th, 2006, 12:46 PM

Turnaround from Canon Service will not take that long. Be sure to request a loaner camera to use in the interim.

Robert Sanders · March 15th, 2006, 01:02 PM

I've heard reports that the 3x is way too soft for the H1. I'd love to see some actual footage, though.

What does everyone think of the .8x HD adapter from Century?

http://www.centuryoptics.com/product..._wac/index.htm

Jonas Nystrom · March 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Canon will (thats the plan anyway) come with a new wide for the XL H1 third or fourth qtr this year. The Century's wide is no good for x20 stock lens according to previous thread.

Robert Sanders · March 15th, 2006, 02:59 PM

Yeah, but how much are these lenses going to cost?

Fujinon's wide-angle lens for the HD100 is $12,000.

Jonas Nystrom · March 15th, 2006, 03:46 PM

...and I don't know. But if you compare the price of the SD 3X lens to camera - we maybe can expect something similar (or?).

Anyway I have bought the RedEye Wide adapter (0.7x 72mm @ £175). Fairly good, really, really lightweight (and thats a great benefit), a little bit to heavy barrel distortion for .7 adapter (don't use in narrow interiors). But even so, my rating 3+ out of 5.

Have a look at www.collinscraft.com

Robert Sanders · March 15th, 2006, 07:48 PM

I'm going to check it out. Thanks for the info.

Rob

Tony Davies-Patrick · March 16th, 2006, 02:38 AM

I also use the Red Eye 0.7X 72mm on the XL SD cameras and have been very satisfied with results (similar to my larger Optex 0.7X), but only use it combined with the Canon 16X Manual Servo lens (with back-focus adjustment) and almost entirely for outdoor shooting.

I'm not sure if Jonas is using the 16X Manual SD lens or the 20X AF HDV lens on his H1, but I would expect it would be difficult to tell the difference between XL-H1 footage shot on the Red Eye + 16 MF and the 3X lens. At least the 16X Manual + adapter allows for critical back-focus adjustment.

I'm hoping that the wide angle lens that Canon are launching later this year is a Manual Servo lens, but I have a sneaky feeling it will be a HD version of the old SD 3X lens. I hope not! If it is a 3X autofocus (with IS this time round?) I hope that it at least has some way of manually adjusting back-focus.

I actually would prefer a crisp prime wide angle lens to be launched by Canon, rather than a zoom.

On another note...I wonder if Canon will offer a body-only package for the XL-H1 once the wide angle lens is released.

Robert Sanders · March 16th, 2006, 11:06 AM

I was recently at an H1 training seminar and the Canon rep said that they were working on both the 3x and 16x manual. He wasn't sure exactly when they were slated for release, but it would probably be Q3 or Q4 this year. He wouldn't go near the pricing question with a ten foot pole.

But he sure made a point of saying that manufacturing a wide-angle HD quality lens is difficult (read expensive) and also pointing out Fujinon's prices for the HD100 wide-angle lens.

March 7th, 2006, 11:46 AM	#1
Roman Teufel Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Aichhalden Germany Posts: 4	XL-H1 and 3x Zoom XL 3.4-10.2mm problem Hi XL-H1 users, I have big problems with the use of the Canon 3x Zoom XL 3.4-10.2mm on my H1. Canon tells us that the old SD lenses of the XL-2 will work on the H1 although Canon dissuades from using SD-lenses in HD-mode because the resolution would not be adequate for HD. Nevertheless I tested the 3x zoom with very good optical results. But after 1 hour operating of my brand new lens, the communication between the lens and the camera stopped suddenly. The lens did´nt react at all and behaved completely uncontrolled. That means after switching the camera on, the lens reacted for just 3 seconds to the comands of the camera, then freezed and did crazy things like closing or opening iris, or zooming in, or changing focus all by itself. In the end the lens allways stopped in some configuration and could´nt be managed by the camera, whether in automatic mode or manual mode. So I did send the lens back and got a new one. This time the lens worked about two days and then the same malfunction started. I ordered a third one when the second lens suddenly started working again - for half a day. By the way, the default 20x zoom HD-lens works fine, also the EF-adapter. Did somebody experience the same bizarre behaviour of this wide angle lens in combination with the XL-H1? Any help is welcome since I need the wide angle lens urgently for a production journey beginning end of the week. Thanks a lot for any advice!! Regards Roman Teufel http://www.rtv-studio.de

March 7th, 2006, 12:03 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	If three identical lenses are each giving the same problem, then I can't help but think that the issue might be on the camera side, not the lens side. Perhaps there is a bad electrical contact on the lens mount? Have you had the H1 body checked out by Canon service? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 7th, 2006, 12:18 PM	#3
Roman Teufel Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Aichhalden Germany Posts: 4	3x Zoom XL 3.4-10.2mm problem Hi Chris, thanks for reply. The fact is, that the camera communicates to the default 20x zoom fully normal and even the EF-adapter reacts normal to the iris control. I only tested 2 wide angle lenses - with the same malfunction. The third lens is in delivery. The camera body isn´t checked by canon since I need it for the early production journey to the sahara desert. The strange thing is the fact, that the lens stopped working, then started again to communicate - and stopped function again. I cleaned the contacts without success. Regards Roman

March 15th, 2006, 12:11 PM	#5
Jason Lund Tourist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Brainerd Minnesota Posts: 1	3x Wide angle lens problem Roman, I am sorry that I do not have a solution to your problem. My reply is to let you know I share in your misery, I have the same problem but on a xl-2 body.This is a huge problem for me this is the lens I tend to use about 90% of the time for what I do. I am on lens number 2 in as many months but my lens acts dead, no focus,zoom or the ability to adjust the iris and like you my 20x lens works fine. I have contacted canon on this and they said they have not heard of this before and suggested I send my body in with the lens, not an option I have several shoots in the upcoming weeks.

March 15th, 2006, 12:46 PM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Turnaround from Canon Service will not take that long. Be sure to request a loaner camera to use in the interim. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 7th, 2006, 12:45 PM	#4
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Roman- sounds like a classic firmware malfunction. If it was simply a contact problem , I doubt if the lens would continue hunting. You probably need to dig deeper into the canon customer support to see if this is indeed so. It sounds familiar to some 3rd party lens firmware problems on some of canons' dslrs, which indeed are firmware issues. Course , it's just a guess. Kurth

March 15th, 2006, 01:02 PM	#7
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	I've heard reports that the 3x is way too soft for the H1. I'd love to see some actual footage, though. What does everyone think of the .8x HD adapter from Century? http://www.centuryoptics.com/product..._wac/index.htm __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#8
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	New Canon wide Canon will (thats the plan anyway) come with a new wide for the XL H1 third or fourth qtr this year. The Century's wide is no good for x20 stock lens according to previous thread. __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom

March 15th, 2006, 02:59 PM	#9
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	Yeah, but how much are these lenses going to cost? Fujinon's wide-angle lens for the HD100 is $12,000. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 15th, 2006, 03:46 PM	#10
Jonas Nystrom Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 306	Ask the Canon God... ...and I don't know. But if you compare the price of the SD 3X lens to camera - we maybe can expect something similar (or?). Anyway I have bought the RedEye Wide adapter (0.7x 72mm @ £175). Fairly good, really, really lightweight (and thats a great benefit), a little bit to heavy barrel distortion for .7 adapter (don't use in narrow interiors). But even so, my rating 3+ out of 5. Have a look at www.collinscraft.com __________________ Jonas Nyström, DoP :: HOT SHOT® SWEDEN :: www.hotshot.nu :: RED #1567, RED 18-50mm T3 :: XL A1, Letus Extreme :: XL H1, 20X & 6X lens (for sale) :: www.vimeo.com/nystrom

March 15th, 2006, 07:48 PM	#11
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	I'm going to check it out. Thanks for the info. Rob __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

March 16th, 2006, 02:38 AM	#12
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	I also use the Red Eye 0.7X 72mm on the XL SD cameras and have been very satisfied with results (similar to my larger Optex 0.7X), but only use it combined with the Canon 16X Manual Servo lens (with back-focus adjustment) and almost entirely for outdoor shooting. I'm not sure if Jonas is using the 16X Manual SD lens or the 20X AF HDV lens on his H1, but I would expect it would be difficult to tell the difference between XL-H1 footage shot on the Red Eye + 16 MF and the 3X lens. At least the 16X Manual + adapter allows for critical back-focus adjustment. I'm hoping that the wide angle lens that Canon are launching later this year is a Manual Servo lens, but I have a sneaky feeling it will be a HD version of the old SD 3X lens. I hope not! If it is a 3X autofocus (with IS this time round?) I hope that it at least has some way of manually adjusting back-focus. I actually would prefer a crisp prime wide angle lens to be launched by Canon, rather than a zoom. On another note...I wonder if Canon will offer a body-only package for the XL-H1 once the wide angle lens is released. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

March 16th, 2006, 11:06 AM	#13
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	I was recently at an H1 training seminar and the Canon rep said that they were working on both the 3x and 16x manual. He wasn't sure exactly when they were slated for release, but it would probably be Q3 or Q4 this year. He wouldn't go near the pricing question with a ten foot pole. But he sure made a point of saying that manufacturing a wide-angle HD quality lens is difficult (read expensive) and also pointing out Fujinon's prices for the HD100 wide-angle lens. __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/