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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old April 5th, 2006, 07:06 AM   #1
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uncompressed HD-SDI equipment list

HelloWorld,

I wondering about the what I need for good raw HD capture.
- How fast a G5? I know faster is better, but what can I realistically get away with?
- I have access to a dual 2.3 that I was gonna put a Kona card into
- & then 2x 500Gig LaCie RAID drives.
- This Good So Far?

- Also How long can the SDI chord be?
- In the Field what are alternative power options?
I could throw this all on wheels with a long powerchord, but are there batteries or generators as big as my thumb?

Thanks,
J
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Old April 5th, 2006, 08:34 AM   #2
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Sorry, but you'll need more than 2 of any size drives to capture uncompressed. However, you could capture DVCProHD with those 2 drives and it would look great. The only time I wouldn't do this is if you have a shot requiring visual effects/greenscreen/etc.

kw
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Old April 5th, 2006, 11:37 AM   #3
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What do people's set ups Look like for HD-SDI Uncompressed?

Thanks Kevin.
That's good, but
What kind of Raid Array would I need for uncompressed?
(I take it this is more important than the Host G5)
if so, I might buy a cheap PC put a Kona card in and capture to a nice array
then take the captured video and edit in Final Cut.

Any recommendations?
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Old April 5th, 2006, 11:39 AM   #4
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John,

I think you might get 8 bit uncompressed full 30fps with both those LaCie's chained together and striped as a single volume at RAID 0. Kind of cutting it close though. Give it a whirl. At the very least you'll easily get DVCProHD. (I get DV100 with a single FW drive) Try PhotoJPEG at 75% and 100% too. Shop B&H or wherever for a min. 5 disk SATA RAID if you want to be sure, and get a multi-channel SATA RAID card.

For portable power you will need an extremely beefy UPS battery. Do some googling on that.
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Old April 5th, 2006, 10:46 PM   #5
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Alas,
I just wish i could plug directly into the RAID.

If I get a 1.5 TB Lacie 5 disk array: 1500$
how slow a G5 could I get away with (with Kona Card installed)
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Old April 5th, 2006, 11:55 PM   #6
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Dual 2.0 G5 would work. Also, all you need is the Decklink HD card...not the Kona. Kona's nice for other things but isn't absolutely necessary if the extra cost is a major factor.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #7
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It's dependent on the cable but if it's HD rated HD-SDI cable you should be able to run it for lengths of at least 100' probably much more.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 08:40 AM   #8
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Wouldn't he need a Kona LH in order to capture audio as well?

The SDI on the Canon is video only. The decklink cards only take SDI inputs. In order to take SDI video and analog audio together you would need either the Kona LH or the Decklink Multibridge Extreme. Of course you could always record to tape and then resync the audio from the tape with the SDI captured video but that is a lot of work.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 09:30 AM   #9
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Wow, Thanks guys
ok so as the dust clears,

a proper RAID would be at least - 1500$
a Kona LH is - 1500$
(and I have access to a dual 2.3 that I would inplant it into -
Problem is - when the new IntelPowerMacs come out and get up to speed - I will want to rip thr Kona out and installl it in a different newer Machine - and i don't think this will work)

So I might be inclined to go the cheaper route with the card.
That the HD-SDI cables are long and that is great news
Sofor 2000$ I could plop the G5/Decklink and a suitable RAID on a cart and lug them with me.
It will be interesting to see what might be braught out at NAB this year....
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Old April 6th, 2006, 10:01 AM   #10
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just download this and see

http://www.decklink.com/downloads/ma...kmacmanual.pdf
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Old April 6th, 2006, 12:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Smet
Wouldn't he need a Kona LH in order to capture audio as well?

The SDI on the Canon is video only. The decklink cards only take SDI inputs. In order to take SDI video and analog audio together you would need either the Kona LH or the Decklink Multibridge Extreme. Of course you could always record to tape and then resync the audio from the tape with the SDI captured video but that is a lot of work.
Thomas,

As cheesy as it would seem, believe it or not the stereo miniplug on the back of the G5 is actually a decent quality analog input. I shot a mini-doc for the Sundance Channel during the festival and because of a minor setup problem I was having at the time with the Kona card, I instead used the miniplug port for audio capture. I captured entire 1 hr tapes in a single pass (I like to do sub clips in FCP) and the audio was fine. I cut the 3 minute piece in DVCProHD and then downconverted to DVCAM for broadcast. I was fine. The producers listened on high-end studio-level speakers and didn't have a single issue. They also marveled at the HD and how it looked better downconverted than the other pieces that were shot on DVX's.

While I certainly prefer that my analog audio capture be routed by the XLR ins of the Kona card, I found the cheesy alternative was actually pretty decent. Not ideal, but saved my ***.

btw John, the Decklink HDplus ($695 I think) only has AES/SPDIF audio in. The regular HD has no audio input other than SDI embedded in. You would need to go miniplug or get an audio card.

Come to think of it, with the money you'd save by just going with the basic DecklinkHD, you could buy the Tascam HDP2 and have the highest quality audio possible, with easy timecode syncing. Might be overkill on the other hand, but that would bypass the whole analog audio capture thing. I would hate to have to resync my audio from the HDV tapes. That's a definite PITA.

Just a few thoughts...
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Old April 7th, 2006, 12:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen
It's dependent on the cable but if it's HD rated HD-SDI cable you should be able to run it for lengths of at least 100' probably much more.
I personally have 50 meters long cable, it is about 150' as I know, and it works fine with my Decklink.

above, DVCPRO HD was mentioned several times, but I can assure you that there is a noticable difference between DVCPRO HD and uncompressed. So if you want absolutelly best quality I would go with uncompressed not only for greenscreen shots.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:20 AM   #13
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Thanks Levan,
It is the outstanding quality of your footage that has me asking these questions.
I am interested in having a solution that I can grow with (same reason I got the Canon H1 above the HVX -- Thank God)
So I would like the ability (in the future) to do fully Uncompressed
Are you getting uncompressed with the Decklink HD Plus card ?
Are you able to get Photo jPeg @ 100% with it?
If Not...This seems well worth the 300$ jump to the HD Pro line.
No?
Thanks Elton,
This is why I might invest in a RAID rather than those LaCie's chained together and striped as a single volume ...

Cheers,
J
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Benton
Thanks Levan,
It is the outstanding quality of your footage that has me asking these questions.
I am interested in having a solution that I can grow with (same reason I got the Canon H1 above the HVX -- Thank God)
So I would like the ability (in the future) to do fully Uncompressed
Are you getting uncompressed with the Decklink HD Plus card ?
Are you able to get Photo jPeg @ 100% with it?
If Not...This seems well worth the 300$ jump to the HD Pro line.
No?
Thanks Elton,
This is why I might invest in a RAID rather than those LaCie's chained together and striped as a single volume ...

Cheers,
J
I have Decklink HD Pro. I have never tried Photo JPEG. Now, I can tell you that carring the G5 and RAID from location to location, then taking it apart and puting it back togather is a huge headace. So I found this solution on net www.gvs9000.com actually it is MAC based system, with built in RAID up to 13TB, it is one 24 rack unit. And it doesn't cost too much, actually very competitive price to normal MAC system. So I decided to buy, I recieve a qoute from them on a specific system that I selected, but then I found out that they are going to be on NAB and decide to check them out and talk to them face to face, because they have so many options I got confused and e-mails limit the conversation.

So, I will let you know what I decided by the end of the month, but believe me it is worth investing.
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