Firestore fs-4 with XLH1? at DVinfo.net

Bruce S. Yarock · April 26th, 2006, 07:04 AM

I have two FS-4's upgraded to HD, and was wondering if anyone has used one with the XLH1.I rented a Sony Z1 and the fs-4 worked fine. Before I make my final decision on the XLH, I wanted to check if it would work with the FS 4.
Thanks
Bruce Yarock

Jeff Morrissette · April 26th, 2006, 07:24 AM

Can you record HD and not HDV to the firestore with canon?

Bruce S. Yarock · April 26th, 2006, 07:35 AM

I'm pretty sure it records the same thing to the firestore as it does to tape-hdv. When I trid it with the Sony, I ended up with m2t. files, and was able to edit easily in PPRO 2.0.
I think I'll call Videonics (Firestore) and ask them also. But I was really interested in finding out if somebody here is using this set up.
Bruce Yarock

Ron Pfister · April 26th, 2006, 08:07 AM

I was told by the Focus rep here in Switzerland that the FS-4 HD will simply record MPEG-2 transport streams (i.e. m2t files as mentioned before). As long as your NLE-system can handle these files (FCP can't, for example), there shouldn't be a problem with basic operation.

AFAIK, the list of compatible cameras published by Focus refers to cameras that can fully control the FS-4 (i.e. start/stop). I've been able to use the FS-4 on many 'incompatible' DV-devices (including ADCs) without a problem, but needed to start/stop recording manually. To what extent the same applies to HDV, I don't know, but I assume that the situation is the same as with DV.

HTH,

Ron

Bruce S. Yarock · April 26th, 2006, 08:43 AM

Ron,
The Sony files were m2t, and Premiere Pro 2.0 handled them with no problems. As long as the XLH1 creates the same files, it should work ok.
Bruce Yarock

Ron Pfister · April 26th, 2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce S. Yarock

As long as the XLH1 creates the same files, it should work ok.

Agreed. And it will very likely be so - after all, it's an MPEG-2 transport stream that travels through the FireWire with HDV. It shouldn't even matter whether it's 60i/50i/30F/25F/24F - heck, the FS-4 Pro might even be able to play back the frame-modes. Does anyone know?

Vince Gaffney · April 26th, 2006, 09:41 AM

Focus announced two new firestore units this week - FS C-HD60 and HD100 that are specifically designed for the XL H1. They record DTE files that are said to be compatible with most NLEs.

I cannot find which NLE's specifically.

Pete Bauer · April 26th, 2006, 10:59 AM

Unfortunately, I specifically queried the Focus guys here at NAB about Canon XL H1 F-mode support, and was told that do NOT support it. So even the upcoming FS-C will not do Canon 24F or 30F. My subjective impression from the discussion was that it just isn't on their radar screen, making me think that Focus' H1 support will remain limited to 60i for quite some time.

Robert Sanders · April 27th, 2006, 12:07 PM

Jesus, how hard is it to write a reverse pulldown script? What's going on with Canon's cadence that Apple and Focus can't seem to get their act together to support it?

Lauri Kettunen · April 27th, 2006, 12:57 PM

Interesting, I've been using the CitiDisk HDV for some weeks with the XL H1 and I shoot in the 25F mode. I use Cineform's HDLink to transform the m2t files to avi files and edit with Premiere Pro 2.0. Have not observed any problems.

Barlow Elton · April 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM

25F is a completely different world. It's just there without "pulldown" in a 50i stream.

Ron Pfister · April 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM

Maybe this boils down to an issue of what's officially 'supported' and what's not. E.g. the FS-4 does not officiall support DVCPro25, but if you choose raw DV as the file format, recording DVCPro25 works just fine. Anyone with first-hand experience with XL-H1 frame modes on the FS-4 HD?

Robert Sanders · April 27th, 2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Pfister

Maybe this boils down to an issue of what's officially 'supported' and what's not. E.g. the FS-4 does not officiall support DVCPro25, but if you choose raw DV as the file format, recording DVCPro25 works just fine. Anyone with first-hand experience with XL-H1 frame modes on the FS-4 HD?

Good luck getting an answer out of anyone on this issue. I've been wondering myself for a long time and still can't get a straight answer.

Chris Hurd · April 29th, 2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Unfortunately, I specifically queried the Focus guys here at NAB about Canon XL H1 F-mode support, and was told that do NOT support it. So even the upcoming FS-C will not do Canon 24F or 30F.

Here's what is strange, Pete -- I asked Canon's product development manager the same question as he was showing me the FS-C in the Canon booth, and he said it *does* support the Frame modes. Looks like I'll have to check with my contacts at Focus for a clarification.

Pete Bauer · April 30th, 2006, 08:02 AM

Definitely worth a re-check, Chris.

A Focus guy at the Canon booth referred me to another specific guy downstairs at the actual Focus area (sorry, at this point I don't remember names) to answer the question aout the upcoming FS-C...but I still kind of didn't get the warmest fuzzy about the answer. Seems amazing they wouldn't be trying to support it; maybe I ended up talking to the wrong guy and he just didn't want to say, "I dunno." ;-)

April 26th, 2006, 07:04 AM	#1
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Firestore fs-4 with XLH1? I have two FS-4's upgraded to HD, and was wondering if anyone has used one with the XLH1.I rented a Sony Z1 and the fs-4 worked fine. Before I make my final decision on the XLH, I wanted to check if it would work with the FS 4. Thanks Bruce Yarock

April 26th, 2006, 08:07 AM	#4
Ron Pfister Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Basel area, Switzerland Posts: 285	I was told by the Focus rep here in Switzerland that the FS-4 HD will simply record MPEG-2 transport streams (i.e. m2t files as mentioned before). As long as your NLE-system can handle these files (FCP can't, for example), there shouldn't be a problem with basic operation. AFAIK, the list of compatible cameras published by Focus refers to cameras that can fully control the FS-4 (i.e. start/stop). I've been able to use the FS-4 on many 'incompatible' DV-devices (including ADCs) without a problem, but needed to start/stop recording manually. To what extent the same applies to HDV, I don't know, but I assume that the situation is the same as with DV. HTH, Ron __________________ Ronald P. Pfister halimedia - digital solutions and services www.halimedia.com

April 26th, 2006, 10:59 AM	#8
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Unfortunately, I specifically queried the Focus guys here at NAB about Canon XL H1 F-mode support, and was told that do NOT support it. So even the upcoming FS-C will not do Canon 24F or 30F. My subjective impression from the discussion was that it just isn't on their radar screen, making me think that Focus' H1 support will remain limited to 60i for quite some time. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 27th, 2006, 12:07 PM	#9
Robert Sanders Starway Pictures Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Studio City Posts: 581	Jesus, how hard is it to write a reverse pulldown script? What's going on with Canon's cadence that Apple and Focus can't seem to get their act together to support it? __________________ http://www.starwaypictures.com http://starwaypictures.blogspot.com/

April 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM	#12
Ron Pfister Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Basel area, Switzerland Posts: 285	Maybe this boils down to an issue of what's officially 'supported' and what's not. E.g. the FS-4 does not officiall support DVCPro25, but if you choose raw DV as the file format, recording DVCPro25 works just fine. Anyone with first-hand experience with XL-H1 frame modes on the FS-4 HD? __________________ Ronald P. Pfister halimedia - digital solutions and services www.halimedia.com

April 26th, 2006, 07:24 AM	#2
Jeff Morrissette Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: venice, ca Posts: 83	Can you record HD and not HDV to the firestore with canon?

April 26th, 2006, 07:35 AM	#3
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	I'm pretty sure it records the same thing to the firestore as it does to tape-hdv. When I trid it with the Sony, I ended up with m2t. files, and was able to edit easily in PPRO 2.0. I think I'll call Videonics (Firestore) and ask them also. But I was really interested in finding out if somebody here is using this set up. Bruce Yarock

April 26th, 2006, 08:43 AM	#5
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Ron, The Sony files were m2t, and Premiere Pro 2.0 handled them with no problems. As long as the XLH1 creates the same files, it should work ok. Bruce Yarock

April 26th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#7
Vince Gaffney Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 146	Focus announced two new firestore units this week - FS C-HD60 and HD100 that are specifically designed for the XL H1. They record DTE files that are said to be compatible with most NLEs. I cannot find which NLE's specifically.

April 27th, 2006, 12:57 PM	#10
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	Interesting, I've been using the CitiDisk HDV for some weeks with the XL H1 and I shoot in the 25F mode. I use Cineform's HDLink to transform the m2t files to avi files and edit with Premiere Pro 2.0. Have not observed any problems.

April 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM	#11
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	25F is a completely different world. It's just there without "pulldown" in a 50i stream.

April 30th, 2006, 08:02 AM	#15
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Definitely worth a re-check, Chris. A Focus guy at the Canon booth referred me to another specific guy downstairs at the actual Focus area (sorry, at this point I don't remember names) to answer the question aout the upcoming FS-C...but I still kind of didn't get the warmest fuzzy about the answer. Seems amazing they wouldn't be trying to support it; maybe I ended up talking to the wrong guy and he just didn't want to say, "I dunno." ;-) __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!