Xl-H1 is it good enough for TV documentary ?
 

Hello everyone .. I 'am new in this form and I could really use some advice.
I am an event videographer and I have been shooting for 4 years. My dream is to do documentary work and I have the chance to do that now. I have two documentary to do overseas. Now my question is the Xl-H1 good enough for TV production like Discovery HD or WGBH HD ... I don't want to spend all my money and time to produce a project then at the end the picture quality is not sharp enough for broadcast Tv. I will be shooting to tape not SDI output. and the reason that I chose XL-H1 is because I need to shoot in Pal and NTSC. One project will be for overseas and one will be for the USA. I use Vegas 6 for editing and this is really a big project for me and I want to make sure that I don't lose my shirt buying the camera and spending a lot of money on the project. Thanks in advance.

Michael Ojjeh

Michael, My company produces documentaries for PBS using the XLH1.
We shoot standard definition and then upconvert in editing. As far as Discovery and others are concerned, I'm not sure of their specific standards, I'm just letting you know it's being done elsewhwere.

Mark

I also produce docs for PBS - well, not FOR them, but they end up there, usually on the National Program Schedule.. Generally in the past I've shot super16, but one (ACCIDENTAL HERO) was shot in DVCAM with the DSR300.

I am currently shooting another (IN A NEW COUNTRY) with the H1. Although originally intended for PBS, we are shopping other cable channels because, to be honest, PBS is a pain...

Not one person yet has asked what it was shot on.. If the show is compelling and shot well, there should be no problem - the exception might be cable channels that specialize in HD - they may want only HD originals or film... But that probably isn't where you would end up anyway -

Discovery Channel has officially approved the XLH1 for HD content delivery.

Thanks you guys for the info.

Robert when you say Discovery Channel has approved the XL1H is that SDI output only ? I watched a DVD from Canon on the XL1H and the footage that was shot on tape in Italy was not very impressive and not that sharp, only the close up was very good, I don't know maybe that was not true HD display from a DVD.

Robert, although it's been mentioned before that Discovery HD is accepting the XL H1 as you said, I wanted to double check with you because I browsed to their web site just the other day and read their officially published restrictions on percentages of SD source AND max percent of HDV source allowed in a program (seems like it was 15%, but not sure right now). They didn't mention any specific cameras, just SD and HDV restrictions...is the XL H1 info officially listed anywhere that we can reference, and specifically whether HDV or SDI matters?

EDIT: Here's the link to the page I read: http://dhd.discovery.com/guidelines/...guidelines.pdf

I know that the tech wiz people at the cable and net channels want to set limits on acquisition to make life easier for themselves, and I also know that many of those limits provide an easy way for the suits to say "thanx but no thanx"...

Howsome-ever, I had a documentary (DEATH AND DYING, THE PHYSICIAN'S PERSPECTIVE) aired nationally in 1978 that was shot on reel to reel black and white vertical helical scan tape (that's right folks - reel-to-reel VHS) at a time when few people had ever seen anything that looked so bad on TV.. but they liked the show, so they aired it...

It's more about content than anything - make a good movie and they will come (well, you might have to go out and reel them in, but you get the idea)...

Steve's point is well taken. Content is king, we all agree.

But before folks commit dollars and time to hardware and projects they intend to sell to HD channels, seems to me they'd be well advised to make themselves aware of the published requirements of those channels and even better, contact them directly. Michael, if you want to sell to DiscHD, WGBH, Nat Geo, etc I'd at least try to contact them before starting the project. They're your intended customers; find out what the customers want and give it to 'em.

Hello Pete ..

I did some research on the DiscHD and others but they only give you info on the web site with no contact or even email. You just do the project and when done handed to them and see if they like it or not, then you try someone eles ( I know what a big gamble ). But like Steve said if you have a good content someone will take it I hope. As long as I have the right camera from the start that really was my first concern.
I really have a very good story and I hope someday you can see it on TV.

Here's something from their HDV guidelines that I think is critical to acceptance of Canon HDV:

"Producers wishing to use HDV must submit an approved postproduction path outlining their handling of the footage in the editing process."

This is where I think HDV from the Canon could be accepted in full, but it has to be edited and mastered completely apart from HDV. Remember, mastering to HDV tape requires rebuilding GOP's, otherwise known as RECOMPRESSION, and that's where HDV can crumble when held up to DCI's standard. If produced this way, your program would be compressed yet again to MPEG2 for HD broadcast which would mean 3 fairly severe passes of MPEG2 compression. This is probably where DCI is skittish about HDV. But there are decent post paths that can maintain camera original quality.

CineForm would probably be an accepted intermediate path, in addition to possible codecs in FCP like Sheer, PhotoJPEG, etc. Apparently they only accept D5 and HDCAM as master formats so most XL H1 owners would have to online somewhere for this transfer at some point anyway.

In the future I think the best path to be Discovery HD approved from HDV acquisition is to offline in an intermediate codec, recapture to an uncompressed timeline, master an uncompressed final QT of the program, export to an external hard drive, then take that to an online facility for transfer to D5 or HDCAM.

Q & A
 

Q: Xl-H1 is it good enough for TV documentary?

A: Yes.

Avid as Workflow
 

Avid's new DNxHD codec has been approved for use on Fox's Bones as a mastering format, and Avid Xpress Pro v 5.5 (due out next week) has full support for all XLH1 formats (yes, 24F too). Anotehr possibel workflow is capture DNx220 (highest rez), consolidate to Portable Drive, take into an HDCAM equipped Adrenaline for oclor correction and mastery.

Then I'm sure you won't like the footage from the JVC or Panasonic as they have much lower resolution than the Canon.

I am learning a lot thanks for the info guys.

Robert I still like to know where did you get the info on DiscHD approving content of XLH1, is it on their web site ? and is it from SDI output ?
If DiscHD accept XLH1 footage That will be very encouraging news.

Thanks
Mike

Dear Pete,

The date on that above link is May 3 2005. This is well before the Canon XL-H1 was in use.

I wonder if we could get an update from Discovery Channel?

Nope. It wasn't. DVD's are SD-only.

Anyone have any contact with Discovery HD Theater?

Really I think the point here is not whether the H1 is good enough for broadcast - it certainly is .. the real issue is how HDV is handled in post production, and that is still somewhat experimental because it's so new...

I've been using FCP since version 1.0 and am not inclined to change. I am editing HDV in FCP and planning to take my harddrive to a post house for broadcast specs... At this point I'm not getting a specific answer from the tech people anywhere because they seem to be vascilating about things..

In 1997-99 I was producing documentaries about public education for syndicated broadcast in California. At that time I was shooting DVCAM and editing with the newly implemented firewire on my computer. The tech people insisted on only using my edit as an off-line and re-editing the entire show weekly from my EDL to BetaSp on an analog system - a huge unnecessary expense of money and time - and it took me nearly two years to convince them that the edit out of my computer was actually better - as well as cheaper..

I think we will be experiencing some of that resistance to change in the coming year(s)...

Steve.. you made a good point my first concern was the right camera and what I have gathered so far from everyone here that the XL-H1 is good enough for a TV documentary.
Now I know that is just the easy part choosing the XLH1 and what comes next is going to be my challenge, I edit with Vegas6 and I hope that is going to be Ok for HD, I will need CineForm and maybe Decklink Extreme or Multibridge Extreme from Blackmagic design for viewing and downloading and uploading HD. I am new in the HD production and I have to take one step at a time and experiment with it until I get the result that I want ( well it is the result that they want ) so I am going for it and I am going to get the XLH1 and hope for the best.

From what Shannon Rawls has said in posts here and elsewhere, you probably have a good system with Vegas6...

In the early days of DV production on-line editors [those BetaSP die hards] were running for the hills screaming "compression artifacts!, compression artifacts!" Most people with human eyeballs couldn't even see what they were talking about.

Since then DV, as we all know, has even been used to create films for projection in theaters.. It's kind of funny to hear and read all the panic about compression artifacts again with HDV..

My opinion, and understand that it isn't an opinion shared by everyone, is that if it's a good film, well shot, and looks good to the better-than-average viewer, then, artifacts or no artifacts [and engineers be damned to an eternal life in Hell], it deserves to be on TV more than 90% of the technically approved garbage that does get broadcast...