When will Canon embed audio on the XL- HD-SDI - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old July 27th, 2006, 07:15 AM   #16
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Truth be told, if it's less then the miranda HD-sdi to HD-sdi adapter, to upgrade then I think it's worthwhile... I mean with the miranda you have to have the box, power and those cables running to it... But I'm right there with charles.

Maybe when chris is pulling the canon suits luggage through the airport he can plant something on them that we can use for blackmail until we get embedded a+t on hd-sdi.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 09:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen
Maybe when chris is pulling the canon suits luggage through the airport he can plant something on them that we can use for blackmail until we get embedded a+t on hd-sdi.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 01:48 PM   #18
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Count us in for willingness to pay $200-$300 for the embedding of audio & timecode in the SDI.

Have to admit to disappointment seeing the new little brothers had this feature which kind of indicates something got overlooked on our H1's.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 05:09 PM   #19
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I am very pleased that Canon added audio and timecode to the new cameras.

I believe that it would be very good for customer relations, for both consumers and professionals, if Canon would provide an upgrade for the XL-H1.

I assume that audio and timecode were left out for a reason, either time to market, or for some other unknown reason.

But now that they have done it in another camera, one that uses very similar firmware, it is in their best interests to provide an upgrade for the XL-H1's.

If this requires a cost to the consumer, so be it. Just keep in reasonable. Our investments in the XL-H1 line should not be made obsolete so soon.

Personally, I would like to see the XL-H1 be field upgradable in the future. They already have a computer on board, and the SD card as an input device. With the proper foresight and computer code, the camera could be field upgradable, just like the Sound Devices 744t line of recorders.

In fact, providing field upgradability will help them in the future. As these cameras get more complex, it is increasing hard to ensure that every single feature works in conjunction with every other feature. Having field upgradabilty will assist Canon if an error every does make it into the field.

An example of an error that could be fixed with field upgradability is the "Focus Preset" speeds. This feature could be made usable with a software adjustment.

Field upgradability eliminates the transportation costs back and forth to Canon and the inherent risks involved, as well as the inconvenience.
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Old July 27th, 2006, 05:31 PM   #20
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Would it be possible to do some sort of firmware upgrade to allow embedded HD-SDI output for our XL-H1 ?

The answer seems to be , no .

I just receceived this from Canon :

"Canon does not produce or provide software with this function.
Unfortunately, we can offer no advice on third party programs. Those
programs are supported by the software companies. Because there are so
many programs available, it is not possible for us to offer support or
to catalog those programs. We recommend that you contact the software
manufacturers, or perhaps visit their websites, to find the information
you seek. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause."
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Old July 27th, 2006, 08:58 PM   #21
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Never say die.

I started a poll about the viability of such an idea, please cast your votes!

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72448
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Old July 27th, 2006, 09:02 PM   #22
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That reads like "canned" customer service representative text. Like any big company, whether Canon has something in the works -- or not -- but isn't ready to release it, that's the kind of response you'll get. I think we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm optimistic that there'll be an upgrade path for embedded audio and TC in the XL H1 because any company is going to have a product roadmap, and these products are obviously a line of cameras, with similar or identical major components and feature sets that are either parallel or complementary to other cameras in the line. In other words, I suspect that the decision to put video-only HD-SDI in the XL H1 and to put the whole enchilada into a "little brother" camera coming out less than a year later was made long ago as the Pro line concept was being developed. In making that decision, the designers of Canon's Pro Video Line could not have failed to realize that H1 owners would be unhappy about this. So those who are most unhappy will be willing to fork over some cash to get the feature...although (cruel) savvy marketers would wait to make this announcement until after the little brother's initial sales rush.

Trust is easy to lose and very difficult to regain. I'll join the chorus saying that if Canon turns out to NOT have an upgrade path, and soon, it is a Big Black Eye for the company and will definitely hurt their pro line as wary prospective customers move to competitor's products that match or leapfrog the new Canon cameras. But I'm thinking that Canon execs know all this perfectly well and have an upgrade path tucked in their hip pocket. Maybe I'm in left field about this, but hope not.
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Old July 28th, 2006, 07:57 AM   #23
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I can see the board meeting now.

Good hearted canon guy in the cornor: Um sir, if we introduce a camera with embedded time-code and audio plus a whole bunch of features won't the people who bought our "flagship camera" be a little pissed off?

Evil Coporate guy (who also is making the stock go up): Sure they will, but we already have THEIR money...

Personally I have no trust in canon's support of the xl-h1 it's a great camera but I honestly don't think they care about it nearly as much as these two new camera's and definitely not enough to bother with some upgrade program. (have they ever done an upgrade program?)

But hey if something on this website convinces them to do it I'll pay for chris hurd's upgrade (uh, up to 400 bucks) or send him some shiner bock at the very least.
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Old July 28th, 2006, 08:29 AM   #24
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I wouldn't say no to Shiner Bock, but in all honesty I'll be happiest (and most relieved) if I don't get that knock on my door in the middle of the night, and bundled into the trunk of a car by some Teamsters.

There was a free upgrade program back in January 1998 for the original Canon XL1 to take care of a mysterious video noise issue, but I don't know how many people actually took advantage of it.
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Old July 28th, 2006, 09:27 AM   #25
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I agree with Nick that we should not only see the SDI get caught up with the smaller, less expensive cameras, but the custom presets firmware ought to be made compatible as well. That's a real fly in the ointment if folks are trying to do a multicam shoot. Of course none of us knows if they designed the H1 to allow a firmware-only upgrade of the SDI or whether it requires parts, but I'd guess the presets are a firmware-only deal?
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Old July 29th, 2006, 05:59 PM   #26
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I agree with Pete, the custom presets should be made compatible as well.

The "custom presets" feature is just amazing on this camera. What a wonderful tool!

Imagine the goodwill that Canon will generate if they decide to do the upgrade for free or at a very reasonable cost!

It seems obvious to me that Canon wanted to include embedded audio and timecode in the XL H1 audio stream all along, but couldn't for some reason. Canon took great effort to put every other desirable feature into the camera.

If and when this upgrade comes true, I would want the "Focus Preset" speeds to be upgraded as well. We need something better that "Fast, Faster, Fastest". It is relatively easy to add more options, or just change the speeds of the current options.

It appears to me that many XL H1 owners will be purchasing the new cameras as a second camera. Making them compatible would ease the workload.

Chris, you may consider starting a poll of how many XL H1 owners will be purchasing one or more of the new A1/G1 cameras.

It would also be interesting to know which model is being considered for purchase. For example, I want a second camera, but I would also like to be able to sync both cameras to the same timecode. But the additional $3000 to add "Timecode In" makes it a tough call.

What thrills me, with the new announcement is that how the overall acceptance/market share of Canon's XL-H1/A1/G1 will go up now that they are a line of well respected cameras instead of one fairly limited edition model.

This is great for everyone as the XL H1/A1/G1 various recording modes will become incorporated faster into all professional non-linear editors. Also, other companies will want to produce a deck that supports all of the XL H1/A1/G1 modes, as there will be significant numbers of these units in the field. Once we have critical mass, other devices such as a lower cost HD-SDI field recorder may become available.

This is good for Canon and us in other ways also. While the thought of purchasing two XL H1's may intimidate, one XL H1 plus one of the A1/G1's may not. I would much rather have two nearly identical cameras than two different brands.
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