HDV for corporate productions at DVinfo.net

Stuart Brontman · September 13th, 2006, 09:53 AM

My biggest/best client is about to contract me to produce a short spot for their tradeshow booth. They just went out and bought a 1080 plasma for the booth and want me to shoot it in HD. They will show the spot using a powerful laptop system with an attached RAID drive. I can't justify buying anything like the Sony XDCAM 330 or 350, but as a former XL-1 user I'm intrigued with the XL H1. I'm blown away by Steve Dempsey's footage with this camera.

Here's the question... How does well-shot, well edited footage from this camera do on a 50" HD display? Is it as "good" as the demo footage you see at the HD television stores (Tweeder, Best Buy, etc...). Does it have the eye-popping look? If it looks as good as Steve Dempsey's work (albeit on a smallish computer screen), then I'm very impressed.

I know this is VERY subjective to ask here, but I'm just looking for a starting point as I research these cameras. BTW, any good places in Chicago to see these cameras in action? I've been buying all my gear from B&H...

Thanks.

Stuart

Dan Keaton · September 13th, 2006, 02:07 PM

I think you will be very pleased.

Stuart Brontman · September 13th, 2006, 02:36 PM

Of course the real trick is getting the camera "functional" in terms of a decent evf, a lens that will give me reasonable manual focus, etc... I have a feeling this $9000 camera will end up costing close to $15k + when a good setup is put together for field shooting in warehouse/factory environments. I've already got the lights etc...

Stuart

Dan Keaton · September 13th, 2006, 03:27 PM

If you purchase the XL H1, here are my recommendations:

1. Calibrate your Color Viewfinder to a calibrated monitor. This is essential as the viewfinder "Out of the Box" is too bright.

2. Use a field monitor instead of the Color Viewfinder whenever possible.

3. I would skip the purchase of the FU-1000 Monochrome Viewfinder. Yes, this is the only viewfinder that will show you the whole picture, but without a color field monitor you will not be able to check white balance. This is a personal opinion, your mileage may vary! I would put the money that you would spend on this towards a good field monitor.

The "Dial In" white balance is very handy on this camera, but you need a prooperly calibrated monitor to use this feature.

4. Test with the supplied 20x lens before you purchase any other lenses. Of course, your type of shooting may demand a manual lens.

5. Have at least one extra battery. The supplied BP-950G is a good battery, and the optional BP-970G is even better. But, these high capacity batteries take a long time to charge. If you drain a BP-970, plan on charging it overnight.

6. Download the custom presets and test them, they are very useful.

7. Plan on spending a few days with the camera to get the most out of it. The new features are very useful, but require some time to master.

Brian Critchlow · September 13th, 2006, 03:49 PM

As far as the quality of footage goes. It will be far better than any HD broadcast you have ever seen, but not quite as good as HDcam. I shot some HDV footage and played it on my parents 53' D-ILA rear projection. I sat one foot from the screen and was totally amazed by how little compression I could notice.

John Richard · September 14th, 2006, 04:39 AM

If they plan to run the video off of a laptop, will depend on what connection is available between the laptop and the HD Plasma.

We have a Samsung 67" DLP that has (1) Component input (2) HDMI (3) IEEE 1394. HDV Footage from the H1 looks awesome via the Component and the firewire.

Some laptops have component out as well as firewire out.

Dan Keaton · September 14th, 2006, 06:50 AM

This is interesting.

Can you output HDV, via firewire, to the Samsung DLP, and will the footage be in HD, or can the Samsung only receive SD firewire?

Steve Rosen · September 14th, 2006, 09:32 AM

I just (yesterday) screened a project head-to-head with one produced in HDCAM in a similar venue as the one you describe. I shot with the H1 using the 16x lens.. for all practical purposes, the HDV stood up very well to the HDCAM... no one else noticed any difference at all.. I did, but that's just me. The HDCAM show was shot by a corporate video producer and looked, well, like a corporate video. I'm a DP who has worked in film most of my life.. so the differences were more in the approach to the image than the quality of the projected image...

Two points to consider.

One: If you do use the 20x, (which is an excellent lens in every way but the handling - some CA, but that's been beat to death) you absolutely need the Chrosziel follow focus unit.. it makes it possible to focus accurately because the little gear on the FF butts up to the big gear on the lens and alters the ratio so that the variation from minor differences like 12 feet to 18 feet is possible...

Two: Be sure to oversee the adjustments of the projector!!! This is something that often slips through the cracks - projectors are not as forgiving as CRTs or Plasma/LCD screens. The out-of-the-box adjustment of most projectors is not going to provide the best image from an HDV produced program... It will look muddy or blown out, depending on how you shot the piece. Slight adjustments make a huge difference.

Steve Rosen · September 14th, 2006, 09:35 AM

Oh, forgot to mention... if you're using the camera to hook up to a monitor (instead of using a projector which I wrongly assumed) just hook up that nice component cable that came with the camera...

John Richard · September 14th, 2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

This is interesting.

Can you output HDV, via firewire, to the Samsung DLP, and will the footage be in HD, or can the Samsung only receive SD firewire?

Yes, we can play the HDV out of the H1 over firewire into the Samsung DLP.
The Samsung DLP is a 1080p.

It looks wonderful (the only problem is the audio is out of synch slightly with the video).

Don Bloom · September 14th, 2006, 10:19 AM

Stuart, the only place I know of that's reasonable to RENT the gear in Chicago (if you're so inclined) is Zacutos on Ontario Street. They're close to the highway just west of Orleans-401 W. Ontario St. St. 125 phone # 312-863-3456. Talk to Joe. They have Sonys Canons and JVCs for rent as well as just about all the ancillary gear you might need for a gig. They also have Panny 200s, Sony F900s and Varicams.
HTHs
Don B.

Stuart Brontman · September 14th, 2006, 10:32 AM

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like this camera might be in serious contention for this project. I clearly need to see one in action and compare the footage, but it's hard to justify spending an extra $10k+ to get something "higher-end" like a Sony XDCAM 330 or 350 with a lens. Don, thanks for the tip on the rentals...

From what you've all said, subjectively the image produced by the XL H1 is quite amazing. For a tradeshow booth, it should clearly out-perform the standard widescreen SD stuff from years past. That's what my client wants - something "eye-popping" to catch people's attention.

Stuart

Derek Prestegard · September 16th, 2006, 12:36 AM

If you can, capture through HD-SDI into CineForm or SheerVideo.

Full 4:2:2 at 1.5 Gbps is really quite stunning. Much better than HDV when motion is present.

Of course, an extra $2k for an AJA or Decklink card might not be worth it :) It's a fun toy though, I promise :)

Barlow Elton · September 16th, 2006, 11:44 AM

Actually, all you need is an extra $1K for the Decklink Extreme SDI/Analog HD card.

Derek Prestegard · September 17th, 2006, 06:59 AM

Thats true... But the multibridge is so handy :)

September 13th, 2006, 09:53 AM	#1
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	HDV for corporate productions My biggest/best client is about to contract me to produce a short spot for their tradeshow booth. They just went out and bought a 1080 plasma for the booth and want me to shoot it in HD. They will show the spot using a powerful laptop system with an attached RAID drive. I can't justify buying anything like the Sony XDCAM 330 or 350, but as a former XL-1 user I'm intrigued with the XL H1. I'm blown away by Steve Dempsey's footage with this camera. Here's the question... How does well-shot, well edited footage from this camera do on a 50" HD display? Is it as "good" as the demo footage you see at the HD television stores (Tweeder, Best Buy, etc...). Does it have the eye-popping look? If it looks as good as Steve Dempsey's work (albeit on a smallish computer screen), then I'm very impressed. I know this is VERY subjective to ask here, but I'm just looking for a starting point as I research these cameras. BTW, any good places in Chicago to see these cameras in action? I've been buying all my gear from B&H... Thanks. Stuart

September 13th, 2006, 02:07 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	I think you will be very pleased. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 13th, 2006, 03:27 PM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	If you purchase the XL H1, here are my recommendations: 1. Calibrate your Color Viewfinder to a calibrated monitor. This is essential as the viewfinder "Out of the Box" is too bright. 2. Use a field monitor instead of the Color Viewfinder whenever possible. 3. I would skip the purchase of the FU-1000 Monochrome Viewfinder. Yes, this is the only viewfinder that will show you the whole picture, but without a color field monitor you will not be able to check white balance. This is a personal opinion, your mileage may vary! I would put the money that you would spend on this towards a good field monitor. The "Dial In" white balance is very handy on this camera, but you need a prooperly calibrated monitor to use this feature. 4. Test with the supplied 20x lens before you purchase any other lenses. Of course, your type of shooting may demand a manual lens. 5. Have at least one extra battery. The supplied BP-950G is a good battery, and the optional BP-970G is even better. But, these high capacity batteries take a long time to charge. If you drain a BP-970, plan on charging it overnight. 6. Download the custom presets and test them, they are very useful. 7. Plan on spending a few days with the camera to get the most out of it. The new features are very useful, but require some time to master. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 14th, 2006, 06:50 AM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	This is interesting. Can you output HDV, via firewire, to the Samsung DLP, and will the footage be in HD, or can the Samsung only receive SD firewire? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 13th, 2006, 02:36 PM	#3
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	Of course the real trick is getting the camera "functional" in terms of a decent evf, a lens that will give me reasonable manual focus, etc... I have a feeling this $9000 camera will end up costing close to $15k + when a good setup is put together for field shooting in warehouse/factory environments. I've already got the lights etc... Stuart

September 13th, 2006, 03:49 PM	#5
Brian Critchlow Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 133	As far as the quality of footage goes. It will be far better than any HD broadcast you have ever seen, but not quite as good as HDcam. I shot some HDV footage and played it on my parents 53' D-ILA rear projection. I sat one foot from the screen and was totally amazed by how little compression I could notice.

September 14th, 2006, 04:39 AM	#6
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	If they plan to run the video off of a laptop, will depend on what connection is available between the laptop and the HD Plasma. We have a Samsung 67" DLP that has (1) Component input (2) HDMI (3) IEEE 1394. HDV Footage from the H1 looks awesome via the Component and the firewire. Some laptops have component out as well as firewire out.

September 14th, 2006, 09:32 AM	#8
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	I just (yesterday) screened a project head-to-head with one produced in HDCAM in a similar venue as the one you describe. I shot with the H1 using the 16x lens.. for all practical purposes, the HDV stood up very well to the HDCAM... no one else noticed any difference at all.. I did, but that's just me. The HDCAM show was shot by a corporate video producer and looked, well, like a corporate video. I'm a DP who has worked in film most of my life.. so the differences were more in the approach to the image than the quality of the projected image... Two points to consider. One: If you do use the 20x, (which is an excellent lens in every way but the handling - some CA, but that's been beat to death) you absolutely need the Chrosziel follow focus unit.. it makes it possible to focus accurately because the little gear on the FF butts up to the big gear on the lens and alters the ratio so that the variation from minor differences like 12 feet to 18 feet is possible... Two: Be sure to oversee the adjustments of the projector!!! This is something that often slips through the cracks - projectors are not as forgiving as CRTs or Plasma/LCD screens. The out-of-the-box adjustment of most projectors is not going to provide the best image from an HDV produced program... It will look muddy or blown out, depending on how you shot the piece. Slight adjustments make a huge difference.

September 14th, 2006, 09:35 AM	#9
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Oh, forgot to mention... if you're using the camera to hook up to a monitor (instead of using a projector which I wrongly assumed) just hook up that nice component cable that came with the camera...

September 14th, 2006, 10:19 AM	#11
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Stuart, the only place I know of that's reasonable to RENT the gear in Chicago (if you're so inclined) is Zacutos on Ontario Street. They're close to the highway just west of Orleans-401 W. Ontario St. St. 125 phone # 312-863-3456. Talk to Joe. They have Sonys Canons and JVCs for rent as well as just about all the ancillary gear you might need for a gig. They also have Panny 200s, Sony F900s and Varicams. HTHs Don B.

September 14th, 2006, 10:32 AM	#12
Stuart Brontman Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 228	Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like this camera might be in serious contention for this project. I clearly need to see one in action and compare the footage, but it's hard to justify spending an extra $10k+ to get something "higher-end" like a Sony XDCAM 330 or 350 with a lens. Don, thanks for the tip on the rentals... From what you've all said, subjectively the image produced by the XL H1 is quite amazing. For a tradeshow booth, it should clearly out-perform the standard widescreen SD stuff from years past. That's what my client wants - something "eye-popping" to catch people's attention. Stuart

September 16th, 2006, 12:36 AM	#13
Derek Prestegard Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Santa Cruz, California Posts: 30	If you can, capture through HD-SDI into CineForm or SheerVideo. Full 4:2:2 at 1.5 Gbps is really quite stunning. Much better than HDV when motion is present. Of course, an extra $2k for an AJA or Decklink card might not be worth it :) It's a fun toy though, I promise :)

September 16th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#14
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Actually, all you need is an extra $1K for the Decklink Extreme SDI/Analog HD card.

September 17th, 2006, 06:59 AM	#15
Derek Prestegard Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Santa Cruz, California Posts: 30	Thats true... But the multibridge is so handy :)