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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old October 10th, 2006, 03:46 AM   #1
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris France
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XLH1 goes to town / Workflow / Settings

First : After few months reading this website here in Paris, this is my first post and i must say - big thanks and bravo!

i'd like to have you're opinion on my workflow :

Resume of my project : 12í short film : camera XLH1 then 35 mm print/
Location : Paris - France

Having in mind :
1 hour of HD 1080 25 uncompressed is ~348 GB (60 m/h x 60 s/m x 25 f/
s x 1920 x 1080 p/f x 2 c/p x 1 B/c x 2^-30 GB/B). Assuming an
average compression power of 2.43, 1 hour of HD using special sheer codec 1080 25 Sheer Y'CbCr 8bv 4:2:2 would be ~144 GB.

Technics resume :
i'm planning to shoot my first short fiction film using HD SDI uncompressed output / Canare brand L-5CFB SDi Cable / 4 2 2 / 8 bits i believe...(and not 10 bits ?) straight to MAC - PPC Quad G5 / Card SATA E4P pci express / RAiD Sonnet fusion / 5 Seagate/barracuda 7200.10 hard disks 500 go (still worry about noise) / Kona lhe / sheer codec 8 bits / Fcp 5.1.2 / Nvidia 7950 GX2 / Still looking for a monitor (that i could use on set and on post prod (new dell/new benq/New Jvc 120 hz LT-32X987 /new Telefunken )- maybe using MATROX MXO for broadcast monitoring (Still surching for answers and money...).

Shooting : 16/9 with 35 mm scope viewfinder reminder.
+ using Steven Dempseys panalook settings 18 (BIG THKS).

8 hours of rush (straight to raid), for about 12' film - 3 days studio shooting + 1 day Ext. Paris shooting/

Raid Capacity :
2,5 To Raid capacity
8 hours 144 gigas = 1152 gigas / on 2500 (0 : 1 mode).
Couldn't find an easier/safer/cheaper method of capturing, still searching.

In post prod :
I'll kick off most of the rush from the raid to make space for special effects (keying (blue screen)+ Red giant filters + knoll light factory + color grading).

Sound :
recorded separatly on HDV tape (back up) and on external FR 2 FOSTEX + TC card or Tascam HD - P2 (with timecode SMPTE link to xlh1) believing that it works (still have test to do).

35 or 70 mm Adaptater :
Sharpness is mostly required / no grain / deep images - like 35 m scope / The Film will go to 35 mm scope, HD CAM and DVD. budget is tied so
I'm hesitating between micro 35 (m2) and iím specially waiting for mamiya middle format adaptater - the varga 70 mm but the next one if its good (with moving glass maybe, if it's ready in 3 month). I do have few mamiya lens.

Lens choice :
Using 35 mm adaptater would it be better to have the new Canon wide angle 6 ? i could rent it. (it's much shorter-lighter) - could it give better result that the 20 ? (light, definition, grain) - i heard of relay lens but not yet good enough for xlh1 with 35 mm adaptater ? will the canon 35 mm adaptater (even with 7 times magnifying) work for this as a relay lens? will i have the dop using the canon adaptater and the m2 ? and an hd quality to print on 35mm? i'm doing test right know but if someone has advice, i'll take them with pleasure.

shutter influence on strobe in 25f
can the shutter influence strobe effect when 25 f is used ?
1/25 or 1/50 or 1/75 even 1/100 ? (since i don't have a monitor yet i can't make proper test) - My 36 cm Sony Wega TV is not really guilty. I've tried not to make pans for years with my xl1, now i want to make 5 perfects ones - Is it possible ?

Can 50 i with shutter to 1/25 or 1/50 or 1/75 even 1/100 then converted to 25 p or 50 p in FCP or somwhere else give better result : Specially talking about the slight strobe effect and this feeling wich in french i'll call "mou" maybe "soft" that the image gives.
using Graeme Natress' ? for example ? i 've been reading topics on it here.
Is it only a question of bad monitoring ?

25f / workflow ??
ę At any rate, on our production, after capturing live with a blackmagic card at 59.94(60i), then doing a 3:2 process in after effects back to 23.976 it is beautiful footage. This process is lossless also. Ľ

is it the technic also for 25 f recording ?

Having in mind that there will be a 35 mm copy / Hd cam back up / and DVD.
I might have to do the xlh1 upgrade for 24 f / shooting. Or just convert 25f to 24f - any suggestions ?

FCP / Settings
What settings should i put fcp 5.1.2 on when i get the signal from the xlh1 recording in 1080 - 25 f signal with hd sdi straight to raid via kona lhe / sheer codec 8 bits or 10 bits ?
I heard that the signal will be 50i at this time (p52 manual) (exept for fire wire but i donít use firewire).
Editing in 1080 p or 720 p or 1080 i ?

Slow Motion with xlh1 / 25 f or 50 I deinterlaced ?

"1080p "overcrank" slow mo from the XL-H1
This test shot is worth looking at. I shot 1080i with a slightly fast shutter speed and processed using Graeme Natress' excellent Standards Conversion FCP plug-in to turn it into a 1080 60p clip--and then I used Cinema Tools to conform the frame rate back to 24p.
I believe this stuff can actually intercut with 24F without issues. 2.5 slow mo without any kind of ugly field blending garbage."

those ugly field blending garbage are due to bad monitoring ? or are they defintive / meaning that they'll be on 35 mm print?

I just want to know the difference between what you see and what you get (TV - Hd tv - 35 mm print - 1080 p monitoring - 720 p monitoring - 1080 i monitoring - i'm doing test next week) with the xlh1 specially when using 25 f mode that seem quite complicate to use in paning, slow motion, zooms (i've still been very happy with my xl1 for about 8 years and she had all those problems + bad resolution anamorphose in 16/9).

Thanks A lot and i mean it - this workflow is due to those months surfing on this enormous web site.

If you have any advice or better workflow for same price ? iíll be very interested.
At the moment i have xlh1, g5 quad ppc/fcp 5.1.2 / testing right know 35mm canon adaptater to see if there is dop effect with it - I guess not.

AG
Alexandre Guinefort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2006, 12:30 AM   #2
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UT
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Alexandre, I just came across this post. Have you figured out your workflow?
It seems that you have it pretty well thought out, but I would offer just a few comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandre Guinefort
Lens choice :
Using 35 mm adaptater would it be better to have the new Canon wide angle 6 ? i could rent it. (it's much shorter-lighter) - could it give better result that the 20 ? (light, definition, grain) - i heard of relay lens but not yet good enough for xlh1 with 35 mm adaptater ? will the canon 35 mm adaptater (even with 7 times magnifying) work for this as a relay lens? will i have the dop using the canon adaptater and the m2 ? and an hd quality to print on 35mm? i'm doing test right know but if someone has advice, i'll take them with pleasure
If you can wait for the 6x WA lens, I think it will be well worth it. It will be much, much sharper than any of the 35mm adapters. And isn't the point of the WA to be sharp with a great deal of DOF? Basically, 35mm adapters are good for a number of things, but they generally look soft compared to the native 1/3" Canon lenses.

For slow motion what you will want is to deinterlace 50i footage and turn it into true 50 fps material that can playback at 25 fps with whole frames and no interlace twitter, just like "overcranked" film frame rates. I've been able to produce satisfactory, "film-like" slow motion effects from 1080i, and it still looks good in HD, believe it or not. Remember to shoot 1080i with fast shutter speeds--probably a minimum of 1/100 or faster.
Barlow Elton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30th, 2006, 02:08 PM   #3
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Studio City
Posts: 581
I would opt for the 3x SD Canon lens before I'd use an adapter. Hands down it's a superior option. Otherwise if it can be afforded the new 6x HD Canon lens will be the go to workhorse for most of us.
Robert Sanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2006, 10:03 AM   #4
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris France
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xlh1 goes to town 2

Sorry, i've been away shooting documentary film with xlh1
money will be re invested in my fiction film.

Thanks for the tip (slow motions) - i'm going to build a little studio here in paris for a big series of testings.

I want to precise that when i meant DOP (depht of field - profondeur de champs), i didn't meant super sharp image (even if i do want one) but the ability to blur the front or the back or a special area in the image (frame-without being forced to work only with canon telephoto lens) ,the same way you have with a 35mm camera most of the time (exept diaph like 11 16 and 22 etc ..exepting wide angle etc..).

but

I agree that 35 mm adapater make image look softer (or grainy etc etc..) wich is no good on big screen specially since 25 f mode is already making the image softer.

I'm still waiting to invest in a mobile workflow HD XLH1 VIA HD SDI platform (using many readings on this web site).
At the moment still working in Dv or HDV/25f/16/9/fcp5.2/G5 quad old one)

i'll keep posted when i'm sure of what i'm talking about / i'm working hard on it.

thks again

AG
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