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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old May 18th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #1
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Canon’s Equivocation - Or We’d like to help you but . . .

I spoke to 4 different Canon representatives yesterday regarding an editing deck for use with the XL-H1. My experience was less than satisfactory. The bottom line was that Canon would not recommend ANY deck for use with their camera. More disturbing was the distinct feeling I came away with that Canon representatives were not entirely forthcoming in their response to my questions.

Canon representatives explained several times that they do not recommend any 3rd party products. I explained that I was not asking for a recommendation but simply the names of editing decks that will work with the camera.

I asked if Canon had done any testing with the XL-H1 and editing decks. One representative suggested they had but then said he may have “misspoken.” In any case, no results are available.

Another representative told me that because the camcorder was so new as well as expensive no one he knew owned the camera yet and so he could offer no guidance on deck compatibility. Hmmmmm.

Finally, a representative, after speaking with an “engineer,” suggested a website (Urban Fox) for information. He mentioned the Sony decks (after asking about frame rates) and also suggested that one of their other HD camcorders (HV10 or HV20) might make a good “deck.” He made clear that his suggestions were not Canon’s but strictly his own opinions / ideas.

There are obviously some deck choices (Sony’s M15U / M25U / HVR-1500) that are being used with the XL-H1 but when I called B&H their salesperson stated that there was no guarantee (“not 100%”) that even these decks would work in a consistent manner.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 05:35 PM   #2
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Dick,
The major problem for Canon HDV Cameras and decks made by other manufacturer is the implementation of 24F and 30F in HDV. Canon is using a (should I say it) proprietary method to record those style frame rates in HDV and no other manufacturer has licensed it from them. If you shoot DV Canon is compatibile with other manufacturers. If you shoot 1080 60i HDV Canon is compatible with the other manufacturers. Sony has started to implemented an HDV 24P mode which is similar to the DV 24P and thus compatible with theirs and other decks. Canon's HDV 24F implementation uses the full bandwidth of the HDV signal without recording redundant frames but so far only Canon can decode it. It probably looks better but does limit your choices of deck. You can use an HV20 to playback the XLH1 tapes so you might not really care that the deck also has a lens. Since HDV acts relatively poorly with batch capture etc it is best to capture from tape once and then back up the media so you don't ever go back to the tape once it is in the computer
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Old May 18th, 2007, 05:52 PM   #3
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When you say "Canon Representatives" do you mean Canon employees or Canon dealers? I find that Canon management/engineering know their products whereas Canon sales not as much when it comes to specific products.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #4
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Dick,

There's about 4 million comments on this in our search section. Being one of the first adopters of this product I totally feel you on the no deck situation, but to be honest the reason they wouldn't respond is because there isn't a deck currently available, nor do i think there will be one. The best bet is to buy a hv-10 or hv-20 nad use that if you need deck control check out convergent designs box.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #5
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All the Canon folks I spoke to were employees (not sales reps). They were curtious but also, I feel, evasive. Given the reality that there really isn't an editing deck entirely suited to the XL-H1 perhaps they feel they can't tell it like it is! I for one would appreciate a more upfront approach from a company from whom I have bought 4 cameras.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 09:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Walton View Post
The bottom line was that Canon would not recommend ANY deck for use with their camera.
Of course not; that's a matter of their corporate policy not to make third-part recommendations. That's irrelevant in the long run, however, because you could have found out what you were looking for simply by reading this site. There must be dozens of threads about this exact topic not only in this forum but in our Canon XH forum as well.

Quote:
I was not asking for a recommendation but simply the names of editing decks that will work with the camera.
That's easy, and some simple research would readily reveal that information -- no need to call Canon looking for advice that they're not willing to give; you could have found those names right here. At the risk of repeating what has already been a very common topic on this board:

-- Any Sony HDV deck will play back Canon 1080i60 video, but not Canon Frame mode video.

-- Any Canon HDV camcorder will play back all Canon video including Canon Frame mode video.

It's that basic, and a simple search here would have quickly produced that information.

Quote:
Finally, a representative... suggested a website (Urban Fox) for information.
Now see, that's the real tragedy of this situation. Obviously that representative should have suggested DV Info Net instead. What a shame... the kids they're hiring these days...

Quote:
There are obviously some deck choices (Sony’s M15U / M25U / HVR-1500) that are being used with the XL-H1 but when I called B&H their salesperson stated that there was no guarantee (“not 100%”) that even these decks would work in a consistent manner.
Meaning, the Sony HDV decks will will play back Canon 1080i60 video, but not Canon Frame mode video. But we've been over this ground before.

I can't see any real value to prolonging this thread. The mistake you made was two-fold: first, you should have looked here first for the information you were looking for (this is, after all, clearly the single largest Canon XL site on the web); and second, your expectations about the manufacturer's corporate policies were somewhat misinformed. The good news is that you don't need them for that sort of advice because you've got us. Start here next time and you'll have a much quicker, more beneficial experience. Hope this helps,
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