XL1 Interlaced Video Problem at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog

Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog
Can't find it on the XL1 Watchdog site? Discuss it here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 20th, 2002, 07:54 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 343
XL1 Interlaced Video Problem

This is a follow-up to a previous post on the thread "Reusing Tapes on the XL1". I have tried several times to post there but for some reason the posts are not accepted.

I had reported that my 3 month old XL1S had been retruned to Canon Repair to fix a problem with interlaced video or what I call banding. The camera was returned with the drum assembly replaced.

I said I would update everyone on the recent repair of my XL1S noted above and it seems the problem *has not* been fixed.

My first test conducted just over a week ago resulted in only two brief periods of pixelation lasting 4 or 5 frames each. These were the only glitches I detected in almost three hours of shooting and I was hopeful the drum assembly replacement had solved the problem.

Last Sunday I recorded another 2+ hours and discovered numerous instances of the interlaced video problem as well as many patches of pixelation.

I have been using only Fuji ME tape since purchasing this camera in November but have just received some Panasonic MQ tapes to see if they make any difference. Even if these tapes produce better results, I suspect the camera still has a problem and will likely have to be returned to Canon a second time.
__________________
Ed Frazier
Ed Frazier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2002, 08:54 AM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brunn am Gebirge, Austria
Posts: 161
Here is my experience with different tapes and decks:

I am using the Sony Premium tapes with my XL-1 and have shot about 15hrs with them until today and made duplactes by playing them in my Canon MV 200 and recording on the XL-1 and vice versa without any pixelization or whatever.

I think the tapes are quite an important issue, as the they are the second most important thing on a shoot just after the camera.

It would be interesting to know what brand of tape the other members of the forum use and if there are really some brands that should be avoided.

So, get behind the keyboard and share your wisdom :-)
__________________
Peter Koller
Vienna, Austria http://www.kop11.com
Peter Koller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2002, 09:22 AM   #3
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
I feel compelled to suggest using only Panasonic or Sony tapes, and also to suggest using only one brand and sticking with it. If you do switch brands, be sure to run a head cleaning cassette for a few seconds in between.

Personally I use only Panasonic tapes in my XL1 and only very rarely do I ever get a glitch. Anytime I receive a Sony tape with video for editing, it gets fed into the NLE from an Optura Pi with a couple seconds of head cleaner before and after.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2002, 09:39 AM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida
Posts: 1,418
for the poll--

I'm using Panasonic DVM60ME tapes -no problems whatsoever.
__________________
Steve Nunez-New York City
www.stevenunez.com
Steve Nunez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2002, 11:51 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 540
While I agree with Chris about the quality of the Panasonic tapes, I still don't think it should be necessary to search around for the "one that doesn't cause as many problems". It's not too much to ask, after spending big bucks for a camera, that any high quality tapes should work.

I've noted that my banding problems seem to be less on the second tape, so I've started warming up the camera before the first one -- that has seemed to have helped. Nevertheless, that's still not an acceptable solution, so it's back to Irvine after some shooting next weekend.

As mentioned in an earlier post, I'm absolutely amazed over the number of these related problems starting to appear -- it seems like Canon should be considering some sort of recall and fix. These are no longer isolated incidents, and are not helping the reputation Canon has held for a long time.
__________________
-- Vic Owen --
Vic Owen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2002, 11:57 AM   #6
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Well, I think you're seeing a lot of Canon complaints because this is a Canon-heavy board. In my experience this problem is common to *all* prosumer and consumer DV camcorders. I've talked to numerous VX2000 and PD150 owners who have the same trouble if they don't use Sony tape. I can pretty much assure you there *won't* be any kind of a recall... just a suggestion from Canon to use Canon DV cassettes (which are simply Panasonic tapes in a Canon wrapper).
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2002, 05:06 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 343
I received a call from Canon today (thanks Christine) asking about my problem. As expected, he said to use the head cleaner again and try the Panasonic tapes. If problems persist, he said they would replace the entire tape transport assembly rather than just replacing the drum again.
__________________
Ed Frazier
Ed Frazier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2002, 03:59 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 540
I've seen enough dialog to expect occasional drop-outs, tape differences, etc. Even though I never experienced them when I was using D-8, I have come to expect some with mini-DV. That's why I settled on the Panasonic MQ Masters for the XL-1. What I don't think is acceptable, though, is a period of "banding" that sometimes runs into the minutes at the start of a tape. I've seen it vary from 10-20 seconds up to 9 minutes in one recent case. Based on others' comments, it isn't isolated to just one or two cameras.

I'm also resigned to the fact, however, that there won't be a recall -- that seldom happens unless a gas tank or tire explodes. As I mentioned, if I didn't like most of the other aspects of the machine, I'd probably be using a Sony or Panasonic camera by now.

It's back to Irvine with the big bucks in reserve!

Grumble......
__________________
-- Vic Owen --
Vic Owen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2002, 04:12 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 290
I've only ever seen a few dropouts in DV recordings. All of them have come from a tape recorded on some cheapie JVC MiniDV Camera and using Maxell tapes. Also, the dropouts are only present during the beginning of the tape and last only one frame each. The dropouts are always there no matter what camera or deck I play the tape on. To see a picture of one of the dropouts, go to this URL:

http://207.168.10.82/dropout.jpg
Joe Redifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2002, 04:42 PM   #10
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Joe,

I'm not sure that that young lady would like viewers to be led to her image by the expression "To see one of the dropouts go to..." <g>
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2002, 09:42 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 540
Ken, better stay away from that one! (the mental imagery runs amok........)

Occasional drop outs are one thing -- the horizontally interlaced banding is another. This phenomena was described in detail in another thread. Drop-outs are expected and can usually be fixed in post. The banding cannot. I have found that the video drops are usually easier to fix in post than the audio drops, though (in my case, they're simultaneous). As I recall, someone was going to send in a sample of their banding -- I wonder if that happened. I have several. In more than one case, I had blank tape (blue screen, no audio) for several minutes, before it slowly filled-in.

Anyway, it wasn't the fault of the tape, which was where I think this thread started.
__________________
-- Vic Owen --
Vic Owen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2002, 11:10 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 343
Hi Vic, I did send a couple of screen grabs of the banding problem to Chris and I believe debbbbgk (deb) did as well. I haven't been able to tie this problem to just the beginning of a tape though. It seems to happen at random times, even after the camera has been on for quite awhile.
__________________
Ed Frazier
Ed Frazier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2002, 12:35 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 171
I'm using Panasonic tapes and I got hit by the banding bandit 2 days ago. Happened at the start of the shoot, not the start of the tape, lasted for 3 min. Luckily it's an easy re-shoot. The world of zero's and one's is great, but if it's perfection we're looking for, disappointment is inevitable. However, if this problem should persist with any regularity, Canon will be hearing from me. Wonder if Soderberg had to deal with it, and how.
__________________
esquared
Eric Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2002, 06:53 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 343
Eric, I'm not looking for "perfection", just the level of reliability previously enjoyed with a Sony Digital8 camera that cost 1/4 the price of the XL1. Many of you are lucky to be able to reshoot a scene that gets screwed up, I shoot events that cannot possibly be recreated. Fortunately, the banding problems I've had to date have lasted no more than a second or two at the most.

I have to say that the support from Canon and my retailer (ZGC) has been great. I'm confident that the problem will be resolved, it's just very frustrating at this point.
__________________
Ed Frazier
Ed Frazier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2002, 09:11 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 171
Point taken. I'd be interested in how or if you get it resolved, as I may be in the same boat, and I'd like to have an oar or two.
__________________
esquared
Eric Emerick is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:44 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network