Canon XL1 lens to use in Canon Rebel TX? at DVinfo.net

Julio Laffont · December 19th, 2008, 11:58 AM

Hi. I have a Canon XL1 and also a Canon Rebel TX. I know that I can use the lenses of the TX in the XL1 with adapter, but I need to know if it's possible to do the opposite. i mean, put the XL1 lens in a Canon SLR camera. Thanks To read and i will wait for your answer. Best Regards.
J. laffont.

Chris Hurd · December 19th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Sorry, Julio, but it's not possible. Your Rebel TX needs a lens that will create an image filling the entire film frame, and an XL lens creates a much smaller image. Even if you found a way to mount an XL lens to an EOS camera, the resulting picture would be just a small circle in the middle of the frame, which isn't very useful.

Julio Laffont · December 20th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Thank you very much, Chris, I wonder if I can bother you with another issue. Recently I bought an Xl1 with XLR MA 100 shoulder connections. First thing, the guy told me that the camera was upgraded to HD. The quality is great but I don't know really if it's possible to upgrade XL1 to HD. It's that possible?. And the second thing that worries me is I bought with the XLR MA 100 shoulder. I did the connection, I put XLR shure mics, but I get nothing. No audio nothing. I tried several options but nothing. I wonder if any special preset or software is required for the use of the XLR ma-100 in this camera. hope the thing it's not broken.
Best Regards.
Julio.

Chris Hurd · December 20th, 2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Laffont

the guy told me that the camera was upgraded to HD. The quality is great but I don't know really if it's possible to upgrade XL1 to HD.

Hi Julio,

No it is *not* possible to upgrade an XL1 to HD. It's easy to tell what you have:

If you bought a Canon camcorder that has a white body, it is standard definition.

If you bought a Canon camcorder that has a black body, it is high definition.

See these links for a four-part guide to XL1 audio:

Canon XL1 Watchdog Articles Index

and

XL1 Audio Step by Step, Part One provided by Canon USA

Hope this helps,

Don Palomaki · December 21st, 2008, 06:45 AM

Also, the nameplate on the camcorder will tell you the model. On the original XL1 this information is on a label in the battery compartment (e.g., DM-XL1A) and printed on the tape compartment door. The tape compartment label also has the serial number.

As Chris notes, the camcorder is SD and cannot be converted to HD by any reasonable means. This is a hard limitation of the sensors. You can use external transcoders to convert the video it produces to a HD format signal, but the image resolution remains SD quality in a HD wrapper.

As to the MA-100, there are a few caveats.

Typically folks forget to make the necessary menu settings to use the MA-100 and mic, the Audio1 input needs to be set for mic (or possibly MIC ATT for hot mics and loud venues) level The camcorder defaults to consumer line level.

The MA-100 CANNOT provide phantom power to an external microphones, so some mics will not work with it. If you are not sure about your mics, tell us the model number. The popular SM58 should work.

The MA-100 draws power for its internal amps from the camcorder, so both the power and audio cords have to be connected. (I've read a couple reports of the power cord failing over time.)

The MA-100 is designed for mic level signals. It may clip/distort if you connect a line-level input signal to it.

Julio Laffont · January 26th, 2009, 10:52 AM

Good afternoon and thanks for your gentle answers. Really helpful. I have the XL1 with the M100 with the Shure 58 and also wireless mics. They are great but I don't wanna use it for parties (I'll keep it for more professional use). It's a mess give mics to people who is eating, drinking shaking or banging things when they talk to the mic, bad idea indeed. What I would like to know if its possible to use the provided mic on the XL1, as unidirectional microphone to make good quality interviews even in the noise. I need a mic that reduce the surrounding noise at minimum and enhance only the voice even if I'm not close to the subject, without give a mic to the speaker. I was reading all the notes of the watchdog, and I tested the camera in all the possible noise conditions without any success. Maybe I missed something.
Thanks for reading.
J.Laffont.

Don Palomaki · January 27th, 2009, 06:48 PM

The stock XL1 mic is stereo, the elements are cardioid pattern, so it is not especially directional (about the same as the SM58 for each channel). However, if you make an extension cable for it it can be used off the camcorder out to perhaps 20 feet. SOem folks report they hae trouble finding the necessary connectors.

To protect a MIC from sloppy party people, put a NOT LUBRICATED condom over it. The SM58 is a very rugged mic, will probably tolerate much more rough handling than the Canon stock mic, and can give good isolation of a speaker form the ambient sound if held very close to the mouth. And depending on the party, the condom may be a big hit among the guests.

A good choice for receptions and so on is a plug-in transmitter for the wireless mic system. That way the mic can be passed and you do not hve to try manage cables, which would be a problem at most parties.

There are SM58 type mics offered by others in $40-$50 range that should prove adequate for spoken voice at a party. I've seen Audio-Technica M4000S three-packs offered for around $70 little less value at risk. (But I have no experience with them.)

Note that a MIC only hears the sound that reaches it and it treats all sounds from the same direction, near or far, equally based on how loud they are AT THE MICROPHONE. Some are directional and have reduced sensitivity to sound from the sides and/or rear. You have to look at the pick-up pattern and frequencies of interest to assess if the pick-up pattern works for you. To provide separation of one person's voice from another equally loud, the voice of interest must be much closer to the microphone and and the other person should be in a direction of reduced sensitivity. When in a noisy venue there really is no substitute for getting the microphone very close to the person speaking.

Julio Laffont · January 28th, 2009, 07:53 AM

Thank you very much Don. I have already the Shure 58 and wireless mics that are really good, but passing or carrying cables and microphones between tables full of people drinking or eating (some of them drunk) it's not a good idea. Also the wireless mic is bad idea, because I connected one in the chest of the main speaker and he started to bang his chest with a book. (it's was an overheated religious speech ). So that why i need to eliminate any chance to give them anything that they can handle. Of course the speech come out full of glitches. The idea of the condom in the mic is good but since i work with families and kids I need to find one with the face of Mickey Mouse... (Funny ahh!!). The mean point is I need a mic that works like a snipper rifle to catch the voice like a wireless but connected with my camera. In the conditions I work the mic of the XL1 is useless, but I'm sure that the mic I'm looking for exist, but I don't know which one is. Thank you very much, Don and really thanks for your gentle answer.
J.laffont.

Chris Soucy · January 28th, 2009, 12:58 PM

About the best you'll be able to do, and the milage will vary depending on so many variables I can't even think of them all, is something like a Sennheiser ME67/ K6 mounted "on cam" plugged into a BeachTec or similar.

There are numerous other long shotguns out there but I use a 67 as my stock on - cam mic.

Don't get me wrong, it can't work miracles, but it certainly has a much narrower acceptance pattern than any of the mics you've mentioned.

Whether "narrower" is going to be narrow enough in a party environment, only you can tell after trying it.

I'd try borowing/ renting one for a test run before parting with the readies.

CS

Don Palomaki · January 28th, 2009, 06:17 PM

If you cannot trust the speakers to hold a microphone then you may want to consider a shotgun microphone on a boom pole with a sound person the manage the microphone, to keep it positions out of harms way yet where it can be aimed at the speaker of interest and oriented to reduce pick-up of other sounds. The mic can still be wireless to give more freedom of movement to the camera operator and reduce cable handling issues.

There are a wide variety of shotgun microphones that can do the job, The Sennheiser mention above is an excellent choice. There are also models from Rode and Audio-Technica to name two makers that can also do well at more modest price points. But to suggest anything more specific would require knowing a lot more about your shooting situations and budget.

Julio Laffont · January 29th, 2009, 01:49 PM

As soon as I can I will test the Senheiser 67. Thanks Don and Chris for your support. Great place to learn with great professionals.
Best Regards.
J.laffont.

Julio Laffont · May 29th, 2009, 07:36 AM

In few days more I will make a couple of test to record a band playing on the beach. Basically I wonder what kind of settings will be the best to record, edit and watch in 16:9 T.V. I noticed that XL1 is great for 4;3 but I never watch yet this camera doing that in 16;9. Once I used in 16:9 and the video was like no good, like expanded. I will make the editing in Final Cut Pro HD express..I wonder if someone can give me an advice for the proper settings before start to do wrong experiments.. Best Regards.
Julian

Don Palomaki · May 31st, 2009, 05:27 AM

Once you have watched HD, you will be disappointed with SD, even SD wide screen, especially on a large screen/monitor.

A beach can be a very difficult shoot due to the potential for bright sun, reflections off water and sand, and lots of find dust /sand blowing in the air, and potential for salt spray.

If the shoot is important, practice before hand to determine what settings work best to meet your artistic intent.

December 19th, 2008, 11:58 AM	#1
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Canon XL1 lens to use in Canon Rebel TX? Hi. I have a Canon XL1 and also a Canon Rebel TX. I know that I can use the lenses of the TX in the XL1 with adapter, but I need to know if it's possible to do the opposite. i mean, put the XL1 lens in a Canon SLR camera. Thanks To read and i will wait for your answer. Best Regards. J. laffont.

December 19th, 2008, 01:27 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Sorry, Julio, but it's not possible. Your Rebel TX needs a lens that will create an image filling the entire film frame, and an XL lens creates a much smaller image. Even if you found a way to mount an XL lens to an EOS camera, the resulting picture would be just a small circle in the middle of the frame, which isn't very useful. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 20th, 2008, 09:20 AM	#3
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Thanks Chris. Another question. Thank you very much, Chris, I wonder if I can bother you with another issue. Recently I bought an Xl1 with XLR MA 100 shoulder connections. First thing, the guy told me that the camera was upgraded to HD. The quality is great but I don't know really if it's possible to upgrade XL1 to HD. It's that possible?. And the second thing that worries me is I bought with the XLR MA 100 shoulder. I did the connection, I put XLR shure mics, but I get nothing. No audio nothing. I tried several options but nothing. I wonder if any special preset or software is required for the use of the XLR ma-100 in this camera. hope the thing it's not broken. Best Regards. Julio.

December 21st, 2008, 06:45 AM	#5
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Also, the nameplate on the camcorder will tell you the model. On the original XL1 this information is on a label in the battery compartment (e.g., DM-XL1A) and printed on the tape compartment door. The tape compartment label also has the serial number. As Chris notes, the camcorder is SD and cannot be converted to HD by any reasonable means. This is a hard limitation of the sensors. You can use external transcoders to convert the video it produces to a HD format signal, but the image resolution remains SD quality in a HD wrapper. As to the MA-100, there are a few caveats. Typically folks forget to make the necessary menu settings to use the MA-100 and mic, the Audio1 input needs to be set for mic (or possibly MIC ATT for hot mics and loud venues) level The camcorder defaults to consumer line level. The MA-100 CANNOT provide phantom power to an external microphones, so some mics will not work with it. If you are not sure about your mics, tell us the model number. The popular SM58 should work. The MA-100 draws power for its internal amps from the camcorder, so both the power and audio cords have to be connected. (I've read a couple reports of the power cord failing over time.) The MA-100 is designed for mic level signals. It may clip/distort if you connect a line-level input signal to it. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 26th, 2009, 10:52 AM	#6
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Trying to get better sound from the mic of XL1. Good afternoon and thanks for your gentle answers. Really helpful. I have the XL1 with the M100 with the Shure 58 and also wireless mics. They are great but I don't wanna use it for parties (I'll keep it for more professional use). It's a mess give mics to people who is eating, drinking shaking or banging things when they talk to the mic, bad idea indeed. What I would like to know if its possible to use the provided mic on the XL1, as unidirectional microphone to make good quality interviews even in the noise. I need a mic that reduce the surrounding noise at minimum and enhance only the voice even if I'm not close to the subject, without give a mic to the speaker. I was reading all the notes of the watchdog, and I tested the camera in all the possible noise conditions without any success. Maybe I missed something. Thanks for reading. J.Laffont.

January 27th, 2009, 06:48 PM	#7
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	The stock XL1 mic is stereo, the elements are cardioid pattern, so it is not especially directional (about the same as the SM58 for each channel). However, if you make an extension cable for it it can be used off the camcorder out to perhaps 20 feet. SOem folks report they hae trouble finding the necessary connectors. To protect a MIC from sloppy party people, put a NOT LUBRICATED condom over it. The SM58 is a very rugged mic, will probably tolerate much more rough handling than the Canon stock mic, and can give good isolation of a speaker form the ambient sound if held very close to the mouth. And depending on the party, the condom may be a big hit among the guests. A good choice for receptions and so on is a plug-in transmitter for the wireless mic system. That way the mic can be passed and you do not hve to try manage cables, which would be a problem at most parties. There are SM58 type mics offered by others in $40-$50 range that should prove adequate for spoken voice at a party. I've seen Audio-Technica M4000S three-packs offered for around $70 little less value at risk. (But I have no experience with them.) Note that a MIC only hears the sound that reaches it and it treats all sounds from the same direction, near or far, equally based on how loud they are AT THE MICROPHONE. Some are directional and have reduced sensitivity to sound from the sides and/or rear. You have to look at the pick-up pattern and frequencies of interest to assess if the pick-up pattern works for you. To provide separation of one person's voice from another equally loud, the voice of interest must be much closer to the microphone and and the other person should be in a direction of reduced sensitivity. When in a noisy venue there really is no substitute for getting the microphone very close to the person speaking. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 28th, 2009, 07:53 AM	#8
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	problems with the stock mic of XL1 Thank you very much Don. I have already the Shure 58 and wireless mics that are really good, but passing or carrying cables and microphones between tables full of people drinking or eating (some of them drunk) it's not a good idea. Also the wireless mic is bad idea, because I connected one in the chest of the main speaker and he started to bang his chest with a book. (it's was an overheated religious speech ). So that why i need to eliminate any chance to give them anything that they can handle. Of course the speech come out full of glitches. The idea of the condom in the mic is good but since i work with families and kids I need to find one with the face of Mickey Mouse... (Funny ahh!!). The mean point is I need a mic that works like a snipper rifle to catch the voice like a wireless but connected with my camera. In the conditions I work the mic of the XL1 is useless, but I'm sure that the mic I'm looking for exist, but I don't know which one is. Thank you very much, Don and really thanks for your gentle answer. J.laffont.

January 28th, 2009, 12:58 PM	#9
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi Julio.......... About the best you'll be able to do, and the milage will vary depending on so many variables I can't even think of them all, is something like a Sennheiser ME67/ K6 mounted "on cam" plugged into a BeachTec or similar. There are numerous other long shotguns out there but I use a 67 as my stock on - cam mic. Don't get me wrong, it can't work miracles, but it certainly has a much narrower acceptance pattern than any of the mics you've mentioned. Whether "narrower" is going to be narrow enough in a party environment, only you can tell after trying it. I'd try borowing/ renting one for a test run before parting with the readies. CS Last edited by Chris Soucy; January 28th, 2009 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Missing T

January 28th, 2009, 06:17 PM	#10
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	If you cannot trust the speakers to hold a microphone then you may want to consider a shotgun microphone on a boom pole with a sound person the manage the microphone, to keep it positions out of harms way yet where it can be aimed at the speaker of interest and oriented to reduce pick-up of other sounds. The mic can still be wireless to give more freedom of movement to the camera operator and reduce cable handling issues. There are a wide variety of shotgun microphones that can do the job, The Sennheiser mention above is an excellent choice. There are also models from Rode and Audio-Technica to name two makers that can also do well at more modest price points. But to suggest anything more specific would require knowing a lot more about your shooting situations and budget. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 29th, 2009, 01:49 PM	#11
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Xl1 mic problems. Thanks Don and Chris. As soon as I can I will test the Senheiser 67. Thanks Don and Chris for your support. Great place to learn with great professionals. Best Regards. J.laffont.

May 29th, 2009, 07:36 AM	#12
Julio Laffont Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 51	Canon Xl1 .Best settings to record and watch in a 16:9 T.V In few days more I will make a couple of test to record a band playing on the beach. Basically I wonder what kind of settings will be the best to record, edit and watch in 16:9 T.V. I noticed that XL1 is great for 4;3 but I never watch yet this camera doing that in 16;9. Once I used in 16:9 and the video was like no good, like expanded. I will make the editing in Final Cut Pro HD express..I wonder if someone can give me an advice for the proper settings before start to do wrong experiments.. Best Regards. Julian

May 31st, 2009, 05:27 AM	#13
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Once you have watched HD, you will be disappointed with SD, even SD wide screen, especially on a large screen/monitor. A beach can be a very difficult shoot due to the potential for bright sun, reflections off water and sand, and lots of find dust /sand blowing in the air, and potential for salt spray. If the shoot is important, practice before hand to determine what settings work best to meet your artistic intent. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com