Waste of Bandwidth
 

Ok sorry to waste the bandwidth but this was a RTFM problem.
I assumed that when you flipped the switch on the side of the camera it automatically switched the menu options as it appeared to do, but then under Audio1, instead of Line(default) you have to switch it to Mic.

:)

Don't feel bad. You have a lot of company on that issue. It is far and away the most common single user question regarding XL1 and 1s audio.

Yeah, if Chris Hurd had a nickel for every time that happened he'd own Canon!

In other words, you're in good company....

BTW, how do you like the 500? Is the 500's bodypack receiver a diversity system?

I have the same question, and I am still a little confused.

Basically, I have an MA-200, a Canon Xl1s, and a ME66 Seenheisser shotgun mic. That's all I have and that's all I'm going to have, can't afford another mic.

How do I get this one microphone to record stereo onto the camera, just like I was able to do with a Beachtek/ME66/ VX2000?
I have to do it in post? Tunstin, how is your method not 'true stereo'?

No idea how this works. Is stereo usually done with two mics running through a mixer?

Brad,
The answer's the same as Tustin provided, above. It's not true "stereo", as indeed, Tustin also noted, which requires a stereo mic. That is, a mic that's basically 2 mics in one. (Yes, the onboard mic on the XL1 is stereo.)

Hi Ken,
To clarify, if I got another Sennheiser shotgun mic, connected one to the left, and one to the right...both on audio 1, would it be true stereo? I've never done this before...which is why I'm so confused. I've always used the old beachtek adapter which I guess senses a single input and outputs it to both signals.

If one mic in the left and one in the right isn't stereo either, then would a mixer on set solve this? And if so, would you recommend an affordable one? (preferably something easy to use for someone like me). Or does this always have to be done in post?

(forgive my ignorance, these questions must be really basic, I am definitly NOT a sound guy and this is all new to me, thanks for any info).


EDIT - nevermind my very first question, I didn't read your post correctly. I now understand it will not be true stereo unless you get a stereo mic. The main question I have then is how to capture two signals and mix them properly I guess.

Brad,
Two shotguns would be stereo, in that you would now have two independant channels of sound. But you would be using two super cardiod, narrow-field mics. I don't think it would achieve much.

Is your goal to simply avoid duplicating a single channel in post, or is it to capture a true stereo sound field with accurate left and right channels?

Sennheiser does make a stereo shotgun mic (I think it's their MK416 model, but not sure). Also, Audio-Technica makes a very good stereo mic, their AT-822, which features a much wider field.

Two mics can be two channel, stereo is a special case of two channel in that it attempts to form a sound image that reflects the relative placement of the sound sources during playback. Go to the Shure.com web site and check their paper about mic pacement for recording.

http://www.shure.com/pdf/booklets/mics_for_music_studio.pdf

Ther are a numbr of other interesting papes there as well.

Ma 200
 

I think I made yet another stupid mistake... I got the MA 200 for my xl1s so that I could go BNC into my video card. I have a Voodoo 64 with SDI ins... was this stupid? or am I just missing some sort of setup?

Michael

The MA200 is really meant for audio (XLR) THe BNC is a nice little feature but all it is doing is converting the phono connection (A/V) into BNC. You could go down to your local Video store and pick up a Phono to BNC adapter for a couple of £'s/ $' that will do the same job.

Another thing the ouput on the XL1/s is composite and not SDI therefore it will not work.

SDI input/output are found on betacam equipment not DV.

Ed

Thanks a lot, I was actually under the impression from a producer that we were purchasing a Digibeta, but alas... But there is always the future. Until I get a deck with a slot for SDI in/outs... or the digi beta, I will use firewire. Do you know of any other nifty options I have that I haven't thought of?

Michael

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : Brad,


Is your goal to simply avoid duplicating a single channel in post, or is it to capture a true stereo sound field with accurate left and right channels?

-->>>

Hi Ken, well that's where I'm confused. I simply want to record dialogue, and I'm wondering if I only capture sound from a mono Sennheisser mic into the left channel, is that good enough? I can only hear the sound on the left side of my headset, and I can only hear it coming out of the left speaker when I have captured the audio. (obviously)

So, in post production, having used one mono mic to record to the left channel, and I duplicate the left channel to the right channel, does that effectivley lower the quality of the sound?

Basically, all I want to know is how would most people record a dialogue scene with 1 Canon xl1s, one MA200, and one mono seenheisser mic? Should I just use the left or right channel with the mic...and then somehow duplicate the channel in post? OR should I get one of those converters that splits the XLR cable and would let us plug it into the left AND right channel (fake stereo).

thanks in advance.

Brad,
Your confusion is understandable. I believe that most videographers simply record their dialog on a single channel when using a single mic. Then, during post-production, it's very simple to pan that channel across left and right channels with a slide of the mouse in your non-linear editing program. (At least that's how it works in Final Cut Pro.)

thanks Ken, I just tried that in Premiere with "Duplicate Left Channel" and now I hear the sound coming out of both speakers. It sounds good.

Thanks for clearing it up. I was under the impression that mono=bad and stereo=good...and that somehow I needed to always strive to achieve stereo? I just want to make sure that duplicating a mono track will sound as good as trying to use two mono mics and blending them in post. Especially if this film goes to a film fest in a theater with large speakers, I'm wondering if a duplicated mono track will sound somehow distrorted? Thanks for explaining all this.

No, don't worry, panning a channel does not introduce any distortion.

Basically, the finished sound field of most films is a mix of many mono tracks. Dialog, foley effects, music, and background sound is all woven together to paint the image fed to your ears.

thanks a bunch Ken as always.
Just what I wanted to hear.

Audio Technica AT835B Shotgun Mic and MA-200
 

I've just bought an Audio Technica Line & Gradient Mono Balanced Shotgun Mic, AT 835B, it cost me £200.00, and it's not working that well with the MA-200 I bought a year ago, which seems to be working fine. (incidentally I have had this same problem with other mics)

The problem I've got (and it may be the way I'm setting it up in the menu), but the signal I'm getting through the right channel is very low and it's not picking up sound from a distance that I expect it to, when I isolate just this mic.

I've set the menu up as follows: ST 12 bit 1,2. The onboard mic is on the Stereo 1&2 channels, and the mono AT 835B is linked to the right channel Audio 2 through the MA-200.

I have to get almost upto the AT835B to hear a signal through my headphones, as soon as I pull away, the signal seems to decrease massively. Is it the balanced/unbalanced thing.

Have I set it up correctly? For £200.00 it should be able to hear a pin drop at 20 yards. Have you had any similar problems? Is the MA-200 only capable of taking unbalanced inputs, could it be that? Does the MA-200 automatically attenuate the mic input signal?

PS. I have checked the AA 1.5V battery by the way in the mic, and tried the AUDIO 1 connection instead, same problem.

I have the same mic and works great.

Make sure that you have the correct setting, for which ever Stereo 1 o 2 you are using. Such as making sure its set to MIC not LINE IN.

It should be somewhere on the menu system. The manual should tell you how to set it...as I cannot remember off hand. If you have lost your manual. You can download it in PDF around 3MBs from the internet.

One its set to MIC then you will hear the mic...its fairly powerful so you should not have be to right up close to even get a sound. I seems to me its set on LINE not MIC on the menu for ST-2, and you do the same for ST-1 if you want to just use your AT on ST-1 in 16bit. Even with the switch set....you still have to select the source type from the Menu...i.e MIC for your AT

And one more thing....I'm not try to infere your dumb...but you have remembered to plug in the MA-200 power source plug, right?
I know I have done that mistake! and after cursing the ground realised what a nonce I have been to not plug in power to the back of CAM.

AT 835B
 

Hi Chris

Thanks for your advice especially regarding splitting the signal using the RCA cable, excellent idea. Re the MIC, I've ensured the menu has selected MIC for Audio 2, so I don't think it can be that. Also the power on the MA200 is connected. It seems like I have to go to Manual levels on Audio 2 and really crank up the MIC to get it anywhere near the 12db max sound level.

Could it be the quality of the earphones, however the on board MIC is loud enough when I select this using the Audio Monitor. Have you found the audio quality is much different bewteen the two?

What does the meter tell you as to level?
Do you have the monitor selector set appropriately and for an appropiate balance between ST1 and ST2 at the output?

Is the MA-200 RCA connected appropriately. If the levels are 50+ dB lower than you would expect, almost sounds like you might be hearing cross talk only, and that the mic might be really patched to a different input.

One more Idea.....Have you set the earphone port to have ST-1 and ST-2 monitor....it could be that. I have never used 12bit..so not entirely sure, but I think you can choose between the two. So perhaps its the sound not getting to the earphone port from ST-2 thats the dodgy bit. Have u tried the mic purely in ST-1 only???

If that does not work, but the build in mic does work..then it could either be your MA-200 faulty, or that your AT835b is knackered!!

Hope you solve your problem soon!!

Hi Chris/ Don

Think I've solved this one due to your help.

I've invested in some better earphones, Sennheiser MX500, which has improved the level of sound I'm hearing. I've also split the AUDIO 2 cable to left and right, so although Don mentioned the signal may be reduced slightly, the AT835b seems more audible as it's now across both channels. I've had to crank up the Audio 2 output to get a more balanced output, but it seems to have done the trick.

Thanks again.

XL1 with MA200 & Sennheiser EW112p
 

What am I doing wrong?

I can hear everything I expect to hear via headphones but when playing back recording I appear to have only recorded from the onboard mic!

Here's how I have everything set up.

In the XL1 menu, Audio Mode is 12 Bit ST-1,2 and Audio 2 In..Mic

The Audio 1/Mic Input Selector is set to Mic

Sennheiser receiver is plugged into Audio 2 in R channel on the MA200

The Audi 1 out leads on MA200 are plugged into Audio1 on back of XL1

Audio 2 leads from MA200 are plugged into Audio 2 on side of XL1

Using the Audio Monitor on ST-1 I can hear through headphones sound being picked up by onboard mic & on ST-2 I can hear sound from the Sennheiser clip on mic

When playing back a recording I do not hear any sound from the Sennheiser clip on mic, only from the onboard mic

I 've read the instructions again & again and I'm just going around in circles.

I'm sure I can't be that far from getting it right.

Can someone please help me out here and tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Many Thanks

Gareth

If monitoring the analog output of the XL1, do you have the playback configured correctly so that the Audio2 output is sent to the amplifier/speakers?

If listening to firewire captured in a NLE, does you NLE support 4-channel audio capture?

MA-series Microphone adapters
 

do the XLR inputs supply phantom power or is an external power supply needed?

If you are monitoring on the camera make sure the audio monitor is to either mix or ST-2.

Your NLE may not support 4-track audio. Try getting a copy of Scenalyzer. Its cheap and comes highly rated.

Hi There,

I have been playing it back on NLE using Premiere 6 with DV Storm.

I've just played part of the tape back through the XL1 and listening through the headphones it is recording from both mics.

Does this mean Premiere 6 with DV Storm doesn't support 4 channel?

Thanks

Gareth

No phantom power is supplied by the Canon MA-100 or MA-200.

Hi,

Have just read another thread in the post production forum by Ross Watson which has nailed the problem.

With premiere I need to make sure settings capture the 3rd & 4th channel and drag both the avi file and separate audio file for channel 3 & 4.

Thanks Don & Nathan. Both your comments about 4 channel audio capture and reading the other post has sorted it.

I thought I wasn't to far from the solution because I was sure I had set the equipment up right, which I had.

Thanks again.

Gareth

4-channel audio is a really neat feature on the XL-1, but it can really cause you some grief your first few times you use it.

weak :(

thanks for the answer though -- looks like i wont be able to use any of my condensor mics unless i buy and external power supply :P

MA-200 questions
 

I have a few questions about the MA-200 if anyone can answer them...

1) How do you adjust the audio levels for the 4 different channels? I don't see 4 audio controls on the XL1S.

2) DV magazine said the MA-200 feels "loose" and the sound of it jerking around can be picked up by the on-camera microphone. True?

3) Does the MA-200 help balance the front heavy XL1S?

Thanks!

The MA-200 gives my camera a much better front, back balance. I've never picked up any noise from my MA-200.

If you set the record level to auto, the levels are all adjusted automatically. The manual level adjustment is covered in the manual. The levels are adjusted in pairs. Stereo 1 is adjusted the same as 2 channel. Stereo 2 needs the REC LEVEL switch of the Audio 2 controls set to M. Turn L and R dials to adjust the respective channels of the Audio 2 RCA inputs.

MA-200 part missing...HELP!
 

I recently bought a used MA-200 off of ebay.
While it is in excellent condition, the wireless microphone bracket that mounts to the back of the MA-200 was not included.
Does anyone know if this bracket can be bought separately? I have not been able to find it listed as a separate part at Canon.

Thanks!

Try telephone Canon and ask (1-800-OK-CANON, navigate to parts & service).

attaching sennheiser evo 100 to MA200
 

Ok, dumb question, I'll admit it, but I'll ask it anyways.

Just picked up the sennheiser evo 100, with the camera pack. I own the MA200 as well.

Now, how the hell does the receiver plug-in, or "hold on" to the MA200.

Ok, get your laughter out.

Thank you.

Hi Joshua,

I attach mine two different ways, depending on whether I'm using any additional accessories or not.

If the accessory plate is not installed on the MA200, simply slide the rails on the MA200 out to the first stop and with the belt clip attached to your receiver, clip it over the horizontal piece that connects the two rails together. By moving the rail to the first stop the receiver clears the XLR connectors on the MA200. Fits perfectly and looks like it belongs there.

If I have other accessories attached to the MA200 such as CH910 or on-camera light battery, I remove the belt clip and velcro the receiver to the battery holder or accessory plate.

Just a couple of ideas that might get you started.

Broken Tab on MA-200
 

Anyone have the little "tab" on an MA200 that slides into the notch on the back of the XL-1 break off? Find any good ways to fix it? I'm assuming it's dangerous to just let the screw hold it on without the extra support from the tab (especially if it holds the wireless receiver). Hate to spend an extra $200 to replace the whole thing over a small broken piece of plastic.

I don't think the plastic tab really supports much weight, but is meant to keep the screw from loosening by not allowing the MA-200 to rotate. I would clean up the break and glue (styrene cement or epoxy) a new piece of plastic in place.