Sony & Cannon at DVinfo.net

ja135321 · April 5th, 2002, 12:07 AM

I'm not sure where I should place this but perhaps someone could help me. I have a tape that plays perfectly in a Sony trv20 mini dv camera, yet when I play it in my Canon XL1s I dont get any audio. I've tried setting the audio to fixed, variable, 16 bit, 12 bit, but nothing. I dont understand why its so simple in the Sony yet this XL1s is a pain in my @$$! Can someone please help me?

Oh by the way, after getting the lightwave equalizer, isolator and mini mount, I found that they didnt help with the zoom noise. I paid an extra $300.00 bucks for nothing. I can still hear the zoom during playback. I guess the mic is just doing a superb job. Basically, I'm left to no ever zooming.

Thanks in advance,
ja

John Klein · April 5th, 2002, 12:30 AM

I guess that my shooting environment is considerably more noisy than some of you folks as I really haven't had the zoom/noise problems. After reading up on this, I (pre-emptively) sprung for a MM and still haven't heard the problem.

However using the xlr in's I realized like a total dufus that one of my old mics is for crap when it comes to s/n ratio. I kept thinking I had a transfer problem or a cable problem or a just plain noisy pre-amp problem (thought I bought the wrong brand camera, ha ha), but it was really the old mic all along.

I was wondering, are you in AGC? I know that during quiet passages, the AGC dials its sensitivity way up? If you were in manual (and dialed down a bit), perhaps it wouldn't be so ultra-sensitive during the quiet times?

What are you guys shooting that is so quiet you'll hear the zoom motor? And if it's that quiet, is the audio meant to be heard as loud as "normal" subject matter?

..Just a thought

PS.. Any chance that the lip of the mic is hitting the edge of the mount? I could see that creating a solid path for sound to travel through might have noisy results.

Casey Visco · April 5th, 2002, 12:40 AM

and if all else fails and you must get a clean audio track, you can always use an external mic thats away from the camera enough to not pick up any camera related noise

Aaron Frick · April 5th, 2002, 10:01 AM

I have a lot of footage that was shot on my xl1 and won't play back properly on any other camera or deck including other xl1's. I was forced to make copies of the footage from my camera to another deck.

Bill Ravens · April 5th, 2002, 10:55 AM

there are some pretty good audio processing tools available that will do a threshold noise cancellation. Cool Edit and Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video 3 will do it just fine.

Edward Troxel · April 5th, 2002, 02:04 PM

If you have a tape that will play in one camera but not the other, then ONE of the cameras is out of spec. Likewise, if your XL-1 will play tapes it records but those tapes cannot be played in other cameras or decks, then the heads of the XL-1 is out of alignment. Send the faulty camera in for repair and it will, once again, play tapes from other devices and other devices will play tapes it records.

April 5th, 2002, 02:18 PM

make sure you back up the tape before sending camera back for repair, once alligned it may never play that tape again.

ja135321 · April 6th, 2002, 11:20 PM

Ok heres what I've done so far...

I put a tape I recorded from the XL1s in the TRV20 and it plays fine. I put the tape from a deck into the TRV20 and it plays fine. I put the same tape into the XL1s and during playback I get no audio. I emailed Canon, but still have not gotten a response. I can't imagine the head being off because as I said I played a tape recorded from the XL1s in the TRV20. Does anyone know of a solution or if they know of some weird setting I have to set in order to get the audio?

Thanks,
JA

John Klein · April 7th, 2002, 12:06 AM

I would keep trying to fiddle with the settings on the canon. I say that because you said the video played back okay and perhaps it's not an alignment problem. I assume you have used the cam before and have the cables in the right plugs, etc.? Also, no chance that the "other" tape was recorded in the long play setting?

Trying to get multiple systems to interact can be tiresome as each mfg. will say "we're okay, it must be the other one." I guess dvcam helps.

Ed Frazier · April 7th, 2002, 07:06 AM

Is it possible that you have the Audio Monitor set to ST2 only? If tape is recorded in 16-bit or 12-bit ST-1, Audio Monitor must be ST1 only.

ja135321 · April 10th, 2002, 06:35 PM

I spoked to Canon Tech Support. They said that there is nothing wrong with the camera. I told them that the tape plays from the sony deck to the sony camera but it doesnt play in the canon. They said there is nothing wrong with the camera and that sony has its own standards and they dont match. To me this is "bs" because if i play a video tape in one vcr and it doesnt play in another vcr, that tells me there is something wrong with the vcr. Can someone tell me if I'm incorrect?

Nathan Gifford · April 10th, 2002, 08:01 PM

Is it possible that the tape was recorded in LP mode? Sometimes cams are fussy about that.

The Equalizer won't help with zoom noise: it works for wind. The mini-mount helped beautifully with the zoom on my XL-1 (not the S). Only under the quietest of situations does the mic pick it up. I don't think the isolator would help much.

Nathan Gifford

ja135321 · April 11th, 2002, 11:04 PM

My correspondence with Canon.

-------------------------

YES, I am an XL1 user.

Inquiry: I am trying to play a tape on my XL1s and I do not get any
audio. I tried playing this tape in the Sony Trv20, and it
plays fine. Yet with the Canon XL1s, I only get video and
no audio. Can you please tell me how to resolve this
problem?

-------------------------

Dear John,

Thank you for your inquiry. We apologize for the inconvenience that this
is causing.

If the tape was recorded with the Sony unit and not the XL1S, this is
normally a synching issue due to how Sony's camera writes to the tape
compared to how Canon's reads the tape. Similar issues are experienced
typically when the recording is done with the XL1S, and played back in a
Sony unit.

Thank you for your interest in Canon. We look forward to assisting you
in the future.

Sincerely,

Rob
Product Support Representative

---------------------

If I'm using the XL1s as a vcr, then shouldn't it work as a vcr? My
point
is this. If I play a tape in one vcr, and play it in 2 others and find
that
it doesnt play in one. That would lead me to believe that the vcr is
the
problem and not the tape. Since, I've had this problem, I've also
purchase
and miniDV vrc, and find that it plays the tape fine. IS THERE NOT A
STANDARD? isnt miniDV the standard? Your reply does not adequately
answer
my questions. Can you please refer this to an engineer?

Thank You,
John

----

Thank you for your inquiry.

The camera is not a VCR for other cameras. The VCR mode is the playback
mode of the XL1S only, and not for the recorded material of another
camera. The mini-DV standard is a standard for the tape size and length
and speed of the tape in it.

I'm sorry that you feel that I as a technical support agent does not
suit your questions, however, many customers face this same issue, and
end up contacting the other camera maker who openly admit it's a
problem. Does your VCR play tapes from the Canon without an issue? Also,
I would like to point out again what I had stated before regarding the
situation when turned back into making the Sony a playback device for
the Canon unit.

Our engineers do not provide technical support in any fashion. However,
I have forwarded your comments along to them for feedback and review.

Thank you for your interest in Canon. We look forward to assisting you
in the future.

Sincerely,

Rob
Product Support Representative

Nathan Gifford · April 12th, 2002, 05:18 AM

Sony does not have 4-track audio, the Canon does. Is the cam set to 12 or 16 bit mode?

Nathan Gifford

ja135321 · April 12th, 2002, 10:51 AM

For all you people that think it's 16 bit, or ST1 or ST2 or 12 bit, or if I've pressed the audio monitor button enough times, its not that. I've spent a few days trying to find out why the Canon won't play it. The camera will not play the tape properly. But what I did test is whether the tape plays in other machines and I can say confidently "YES" it plays in a Sony GV-D1000, and Sony TRV20, a friends JVC, it plays in a Sony PD-150, the original sony dvdeck. It seems to me that and its apparently what the Canon reps says, "Don't use it as a vcr for other brand cameras." But what pisses me off is that the original medium was from a dvdeck and not a camera. I dont know whether Canon is taking their equipment and purposely trying to be like microsoft and not playing nice with the other manufacturers?

April 5th, 2002, 12:07 AM	#1
ja135321 Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 90	Sony & Cannon I'm not sure where I should place this but perhaps someone could help me. I have a tape that plays perfectly in a Sony trv20 mini dv camera, yet when I play it in my Canon XL1s I dont get any audio. I've tried setting the audio to fixed, variable, 16 bit, 12 bit, but nothing. I dont understand why its so simple in the Sony yet this XL1s is a pain in my @$$! Can someone please help me? Oh by the way, after getting the lightwave equalizer, isolator and mini mount, I found that they didnt help with the zoom noise. I paid an extra $300.00 bucks for nothing. I can still hear the zoom during playback. I guess the mic is just doing a superb job. Basically, I'm left to no ever zooming. Thanks in advance, ja

April 5th, 2002, 12:30 AM	#2
John Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 182	I guess that my shooting environment is considerably more noisy than some of you folks as I really haven't had the zoom/noise problems. After reading up on this, I (pre-emptively) sprung for a MM and still haven't heard the problem. However using the xlr in's I realized like a total dufus that one of my old mics is for crap when it comes to s/n ratio. I kept thinking I had a transfer problem or a cable problem or a just plain noisy pre-amp problem (thought I bought the wrong brand camera, ha ha), but it was really the old mic all along. I was wondering, are you in AGC? I know that during quiet passages, the AGC dials its sensitivity way up? If you were in manual (and dialed down a bit), perhaps it wouldn't be so ultra-sensitive during the quiet times? What are you guys shooting that is so quiet you'll hear the zoom motor? And if it's that quiet, is the audio meant to be heard as loud as "normal" subject matter? ..Just a thought PS.. Any chance that the lip of the mic is hitting the edge of the mount? I could see that creating a solid path for sound to travel through might have noisy results. __________________ < >< . . . . . < >< . . . . . < ><

April 5th, 2002, 12:40 AM	#3
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	and if all else fails and you must get a clean audio track, you can always use an external mic thats away from the camera enough to not pick up any camera related noise __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

April 5th, 2002, 10:01 AM	#4
Aaron Frick Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: New Mexico Posts: 71	dv can be a little strange that way. I have a lot of footage that was shot on my xl1 and won't play back properly on any other camera or deck including other xl1's. I was forced to make copies of the footage from my camera to another deck. __________________ Land of Enchantment, New Mexico

April 5th, 2002, 02:18 PM	#7
Al Harmon Posts: n/a	sony & canon make sure you back up the tape before sending camera back for repair, once alligned it may never play that tape again.

April 5th, 2002, 10:55 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	there are some pretty good audio processing tools available that will do a threshold noise cancellation. Cool Edit and Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video 3 will do it just fine.

April 5th, 2002, 02:04 PM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	If you have a tape that will play in one camera but not the other, then ONE of the cameras is out of spec. Likewise, if your XL-1 will play tapes it records but those tapes cannot be played in other cameras or decks, then the heads of the XL-1 is out of alignment. Send the faulty camera in for repair and it will, once again, play tapes from other devices and other devices will play tapes it records.

April 6th, 2002, 11:20 PM	#8
ja135321 Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 90	the camera not the tape Ok heres what I've done so far... I put a tape I recorded from the XL1s in the TRV20 and it plays fine. I put the tape from a deck into the TRV20 and it plays fine. I put the same tape into the XL1s and during playback I get no audio. I emailed Canon, but still have not gotten a response. I can't imagine the head being off because as I said I played a tape recorded from the XL1s in the TRV20. Does anyone know of a solution or if they know of some weird setting I have to set in order to get the audio? Thanks, JA

April 7th, 2002, 12:06 AM	#9
John Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 182	I would keep trying to fiddle with the settings on the canon. I say that because you said the video played back okay and perhaps it's not an alignment problem. I assume you have used the cam before and have the cables in the right plugs, etc.? Also, no chance that the "other" tape was recorded in the long play setting? Trying to get multiple systems to interact can be tiresome as each mfg. will say "we're okay, it must be the other one." I guess dvcam helps. __________________ < >< . . . . . < >< . . . . . < ><

April 7th, 2002, 07:06 AM	#10
Ed Frazier Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 343	Check Audio Monitor Button Is it possible that you have the Audio Monitor set to ST2 only? If tape is recorded in 16-bit or 12-bit ST-1, Audio Monitor must be ST1 only. __________________ Ed Frazier

April 10th, 2002, 06:35 PM	#11
ja135321 Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 90	Canon Tech Support I spoked to Canon Tech Support. They said that there is nothing wrong with the camera. I told them that the tape plays from the sony deck to the sony camera but it doesnt play in the canon. They said there is nothing wrong with the camera and that sony has its own standards and they dont match. To me this is "bs" because if i play a video tape in one vcr and it doesnt play in another vcr, that tells me there is something wrong with the vcr. Can someone tell me if I'm incorrect?

April 10th, 2002, 08:01 PM	#12
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	What about LP mode? Is it possible that the tape was recorded in LP mode? Sometimes cams are fussy about that. The Equalizer won't help with zoom noise: it works for wind. The mini-mount helped beautifully with the zoom on my XL-1 (not the S). Only under the quietest of situations does the mic pick it up. I don't think the isolator would help much. Nathan Gifford

April 11th, 2002, 11:04 PM	#13
ja135321 Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 90	for those of you who are interested My correspondence with Canon. ------------------------- YES, I am an XL1 user. Inquiry: I am trying to play a tape on my XL1s and I do not get any audio. I tried playing this tape in the Sony Trv20, and it plays fine. Yet with the Canon XL1s, I only get video and no audio. Can you please tell me how to resolve this problem? ------------------------- Dear John, Thank you for your inquiry. We apologize for the inconvenience that this is causing. If the tape was recorded with the Sony unit and not the XL1S, this is normally a synching issue due to how Sony's camera writes to the tape compared to how Canon's reads the tape. Similar issues are experienced typically when the recording is done with the XL1S, and played back in a Sony unit. Thank you for your interest in Canon. We look forward to assisting you in the future. Sincerely, Rob Product Support Representative --------------------- If I'm using the XL1s as a vcr, then shouldn't it work as a vcr? My point is this. If I play a tape in one vcr, and play it in 2 others and find that it doesnt play in one. That would lead me to believe that the vcr is the problem and not the tape. Since, I've had this problem, I've also purchase and miniDV vrc, and find that it plays the tape fine. IS THERE NOT A STANDARD? isnt miniDV the standard? Your reply does not adequately answer my questions. Can you please refer this to an engineer? Thank You, John ---- Thank you for your inquiry. The camera is not a VCR for other cameras. The VCR mode is the playback mode of the XL1S only, and not for the recorded material of another camera. The mini-DV standard is a standard for the tape size and length and speed of the tape in it. I'm sorry that you feel that I as a technical support agent does not suit your questions, however, many customers face this same issue, and end up contacting the other camera maker who openly admit it's a problem. Does your VCR play tapes from the Canon without an issue? Also, I would like to point out again what I had stated before regarding the situation when turned back into making the Sony a playback device for the Canon unit. Our engineers do not provide technical support in any fashion. However, I have forwarded your comments along to them for feedback and review. Thank you for your interest in Canon. We look forward to assisting you in the future. Sincerely, Rob Product Support Representative

April 12th, 2002, 05:18 AM	#14
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	Are you in 12 bit or 16 bit mode? Sony does not have 4-track audio, the Canon does. Is the cam set to 12 or 16 bit mode? Nathan Gifford

April 12th, 2002, 10:51 AM	#15
ja135321 Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 90	It just will not play it. For all you people that think it's 16 bit, or ST1 or ST2 or 12 bit, or if I've pressed the audio monitor button enough times, its not that. I've spent a few days trying to find out why the Canon won't play it. The camera will not play the tape properly. But what I did test is whether the tape plays in other machines and I can say confidently "YES" it plays in a Sony GV-D1000, and Sony TRV20, a friends JVC, it plays in a Sony PD-150, the original sony dvdeck. It seems to me that and its apparently what the Canon reps says, "Don't use it as a vcr for other brand cameras." But what pisses me off is that the original medium was from a dvdeck and not a camera. I dont know whether Canon is taking their equipment and purposely trying to be like microsoft and not playing nice with the other manufacturers?