XL1 / XL1S various posts

Chris Hurd · April 18th, 2002, 09:38 PM

Won't harm it, but won't play it either. To clarify: a DVCAM cassette which has been recorded in the DV format will play back just fine. However, a DVCAM casette recorded in DVCAM cannot be played back on any Canon DV camcorder. Hope this helps,

Robert R Gallegos · April 18th, 2002, 09:41 PM

Chris,

Thanks for the prompt response. I will check with my client to see if they just shot normal DV on DVCAM...

Michel Brewer · April 18th, 2002, 10:23 PM

I use a beyerdynamic mce 87s battery poweres comes with the xlr to mini jack. It was just over $300 at bh, zotz has them also it works great, used it for mos's mounted on cam and it came out broadcast quality.......

Michel Brewer · April 18th, 2002, 10:25 PM

that about says it my apoligies

m

John Klein · April 20th, 2002, 02:19 PM

I can tell it's shot with a single XL1S or xl1. Okay, I guess it could have been a gl-1, but I'm familiar with the look which I just saw (which is factory preset, other than frame mode). In frame-mode with little to no sharpness added.

I'm on TW's digital cable and can see it here on ch 120.

I don't know if it was a series or an infomercial for "national action council." Either way, the video was done by some prosumer (or a prodigy of Soderberg). A lot, if not all, was hand held. A/F and often auto everything.

Other than the softness, it really looked pretty good and really clean. Exp. (or lighting) could have been tweaked, but for what I assume was a green-mode shoot, it was obviously broadcastable. Adding sharpness will add some artifacts and other tell-tale video additives, but IMO it's needed.

At first I thought it might have been shot using 1/30th as they were indoors, but I figure it's frame mode because I saw it look similar in an outdoor setting. Once outside you could see what fast action does to frame mode. A banner was moved and it was weird, like, zig-zag interlace distortion.

I think the pic was better on the digital-tier channel than mine which occasionally makes it to the analog side of cable access. Here (according to my source), it's an analog signal for 97% of channels 1-99, and digital from 100 on up.

elusive_kudo · April 21st, 2002, 11:43 AM

Doesn anyone know whether Sennheiser ME 66K6 mic will get into the shot, on the widest normal setting as well when using a WL adapter on Sony DSR PD 100a camcorder?

Much thanks for any info.

Henry Czuprinski · April 22nd, 2002, 03:20 PM

Reliable sources suggested that Tiffen& undisclosed lens mfg are developing an anamorphic adapter for the new Panasonic 24p cam- which is purported to use 73mm filters- same as new XL1 man lens. Do you suppose it'll work on the Canon? Any mfg who passed up the opportunity sell to the huge XL1 userbase would be foolish indeed.
Tip first seen on Scott Billup's Pixelmonger site.

Kairat Salikhov · April 23rd, 2002, 06:29 PM

Hi there guys,

I'm impressed with FireStore, but price wise it's out of my budget.
So I was thinking in line of an alternative device to it.

I'm in a process of making small studio in a small country overseas, and our budget is small. I have to find ways to lower our budget.

What exactly do we need for long interviews or long duration shots inside the studio, when reg.miniDV tapes can't do the job? A capture device of a small size.
Well I saw a recent computer from Shuttle, that little alumnum barebone comp.case for abt $250. It has Firewire, and ability to mount a removable hard drive in one of its 5.25" bays.

Cost: $250 unit + cheap Celeron ~$55 and PC133 ram ~$31 for 256MB + 60GB ATA100 HD ~100 + removable casing for HD ~$20, which all comes to total of ~$456. Plus some additional $$ for mouse,keyboard.

This is far less compared to firestore and better functionality to some of it's users.

I don't want to capture directly to NLE system as our NLE is to big to carry around and has to do other job :).

Depending on configuration and and hense needs of the user price might go up, but functionality wise it might be better compared to firestore.

One of the possibilities is to add DVRaptor from Canopus which is only $145 on ebay. OS and soft can be configured to start automaticly at startup and you would need just push a key on small keyboard for the capture to start and another key to stop it.
In this case is quite attractive to us as our NLE is based on DVStorm SE Plus from canopus and hense captured files compatibility.

I'll do more research on this subject, as the need for LCD monitor or alternative to it, OS, etc.

Please give me your comments, ideas, well anything that might come to your mind.

If something is not clear - Pardon my english :), I'm not native speaker.

Kairat S.

kaplooee · April 24th, 2002, 02:30 AM

Hi, i have 2 questions,
the first is that shooting with the xl1s has a horibble viewfinder and the color is far from being correct,
There is en exposure meter on the viewfinder but it not really very exact, i think or at least i havnt learned how to use it properly. I know that there was a section on the watchdog FAQ explaining the ISO. But what do you people use in the realy world, with different gain shifts -3db, 0db and +3db.
Also how do you guys set the viewfinder to be more or less close to what you see on the monitor. without having an external monitor. i know it wont be very exact but what color have you guys noticed are off and such things.

thank you
--kaplooee

Massimo Scappato · April 24th, 2002, 11:23 AM

There are 25 frames per second - PAL - with all the shutter speeds? Yes! What happens exactly with shutters speed inferior to 1/50 sec? From 1/8 to 1/50 for Canon XL1 s (PAL), for example. Are there less frames? Or there is duplication of fields/frames (the total number of fields per second does not change... I am not 100% sure of it, however). Example: with 1/25 sec shutter speed every field is exposed for so much time that the following one is the same field copied by the camera from his memory? This is a question: I do not know the answer.
Regarding the memory I read that many DV cameras use the digital frame buffer of the camera in conjunction with a variable clock on the CCDs to accumulate more than a field's worth of light on the face of the chip before transferring the image to the buffer and thence to tape. This can do two things for you: more light integration, and slower frame update rates. What does slower frame update mean? (in terms of fields, copied fields (if any), frame rate) ??

Thanks in advance to whoever will help me,
Massimo

Justin Chin · April 24th, 2002, 02:07 PM

I have a set of NP1 batteries and charger (all IDX) and wondered if anyone here knows of any various ways to use these batteries with the XL1.

Currently, I like using these batteries because I can power my Sony field monitor with them. I would like to buy more and perhaps extend their use to the XL1.

Thanks

Chris Hurd · April 24th, 2002, 09:07 PM

Saw this at NAB, Justin... looks like it's exactly what you need.

http://www.aspenelectronics.com/aspen_products/specialized/xl7a.htm

http://www.aspenelectronics.com/aspen_products/specialized/xl7b.htm

Thomas Berg Petersen · April 25th, 2002, 09:45 AM

Dear Dvinfo,
I am sorry to bother everyone again. But spending a small fortune on a DV camera as well as everything that comes with it, makes the choice of what to buy a big decision.

I just wanted to ask XL1S PAL users if they could post their experiences with regards to:

1. What kind of projects do you use the XL1S PAL for?

2. What is your set up e.g. Mac/PC, NLE system/brand, monitors, capturecard, DV deck, lights, mics etc.

3. Does anyone use a Mac to convert PAL to NTSC for VHS video copies? What kind of software or solution can you recommend?

I am looking forward to contributing to this forum later once I buy and have my own experiences using the XL1S myself.

Best regards,
Thomas

Adrian Douglas · April 25th, 2002, 10:34 AM

Thomas,

I covered this topic in your other post. But I'll amswer your other questions here.

I use my PAL XL1 for everything from shooting extreme sports(surfing, snowboarding, motocross etc) to weddings(only if I really have to). I've output to tape, MPEG2(DVD) and web formats(Quicktime, Windows Media, Real Player, DivX and Flash6) all with good results.

I edit it all on a PC running a Pinnacle DV500 out to a JVC S-VHS deck. Back in Australia I just used a 21" JVC TV to monitor the output. Lighting wise I've used everything from Portafloods to Lowells. For audio I've just been using the onboard mic and a Sony Mini Disk Recorder/mic which I sync in post.

You can use your NLE software to convert from PAL to NTSC for playback but it isn't the best quality and some form of 3rd party software like motion perfect is required to clean up the jerkyness. Even though it helps it still isn't anywhere near broadcast quality.

I am currently living in Japan(NTSC) and my XL1 was purchased in Australia(PAL). Using the PAL camera here has proved to be a pain in the butt as a PAL monitor is required, and everything has to be converted just for people to see what's been shot. I've seen side by side footage NTSC XL1's and you can't tell the difference visually unless you are using Pro gear and scopes.

The short of it all is as you are living in NY, I'd suggest you go with NTSC and save yourself time and trouble. It's really not worth the time, money and effort for a lousy 100 lines when it all gets compressed and viewed on a computer screen or a consumer TV which only has a res of about 240 anyway.

Hope this helps you in some way

April 26th, 2002, 12:56 PM

I was thinking of shooting a couple night scenes of my film during the day that way I could have more control of the lighting. Such a shot out in the woods, seeing that I can't afford any 20ks and such I thought shooting day for night would provide me more control of the lighting without having the grain issues of raising the db. One thing I'll be doing is whitebalancing on a very light pastel yellow to give me the blue moon cast and of course really shutting down the exposure. i'll be doing some tests next week. Any suggestions? i've never done this before so any help would really be great. thanks.

April 18th, 2002, 09:38 PM	#241
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Won't harm it, but won't play it either. To clarify: a DVCAM cassette which has been recorded in the DV format will play back just fine. However, a DVCAM casette recorded in DVCAM cannot be played back on any Canon DV camcorder. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 18th, 2002, 09:41 PM	#242
Robert R Gallegos New Boot Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 17	Thanks Chris Chris, Thanks for the prompt response. I will check with my client to see if they just shot normal DV on DVCAM... __________________ Sincerely, Robert R Gallegos

April 18th, 2002, 10:23 PM	#243
Michel Brewer Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ventura California Posts: 179	beyerdynamic I use a beyerdynamic mce 87s battery poweres comes with the xlr to mini jack. It was just over $300 at bh, zotz has them also it works great, used it for mos's mounted on cam and it came out broadcast quality.......

April 18th, 2002, 10:25 PM	#244
Michel Brewer Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ventura California Posts: 179	sorry this was supposed to go in shotguns for the xl1 that about says it my apoligies m

April 20th, 2002, 02:19 PM	#245
John Klein Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 182	XL1 used for Al Sharpton on Word Network I can tell it's shot with a single XL1S or xl1. Okay, I guess it could have been a gl-1, but I'm familiar with the look which I just saw (which is factory preset, other than frame mode). In frame-mode with little to no sharpness added. I'm on TW's digital cable and can see it here on ch 120. I don't know if it was a series or an infomercial for "national action council." Either way, the video was done by some prosumer (or a prodigy of Soderberg). A lot, if not all, was hand held. A/F and often auto everything. Other than the softness, it really looked pretty good and really clean. Exp. (or lighting) could have been tweaked, but for what I assume was a green-mode shoot, it was obviously broadcastable. Adding sharpness will add some artifacts and other tell-tale video additives, but IMO it's needed. At first I thought it might have been shot using 1/30th as they were indoors, but I figure it's frame mode because I saw it look similar in an outdoor setting. Once outside you could see what fast action does to frame mode. A banner was moved and it was weird, like, zig-zag interlace distortion. I think the pic was better on the digital-tier channel than mine which occasionally makes it to the analog side of cable access. Here (according to my source), it's an analog signal for 97% of channels 1-99, and digital from 100 on up. __________________ < >< . . . . . < >< . . . . . < >< Last edited by John Klein; April 20th, 2002 at 02:57 PM.

April 21st, 2002, 11:43 AM	#246
elusive_kudo Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 37	Sennheiser ME 66K6 on Sony PD 100a will it get into the shot? Doesn anyone know whether Sennheiser ME 66K6 mic will get into the shot, on the widest normal setting as well when using a WL adapter on Sony DSR PD 100a camcorder? Much thanks for any info.

April 22nd, 2002, 03:20 PM	#247
Henry Czuprinski Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: minneapolis Posts: 37	'Nuther anamorphic adapter for XL1?? Reliable sources suggested that Tiffen& undisclosed lens mfg are developing an anamorphic adapter for the new Panasonic 24p cam- which is purported to use 73mm filters- same as new XL1 man lens. Do you suppose it'll work on the Canon? Any mfg who passed up the opportunity sell to the huge XL1 userbase would be foolish indeed. Tip first seen on Scott Billup's Pixelmonger site.

April 23rd, 2002, 06:29 PM	#248
Kairat Salikhov Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kazakhstan - USA Posts: 32	Making alternative capture device to FireStore Hi there guys, I'm impressed with FireStore, but price wise it's out of my budget. So I was thinking in line of an alternative device to it. I'm in a process of making small studio in a small country overseas, and our budget is small. I have to find ways to lower our budget. What exactly do we need for long interviews or long duration shots inside the studio, when reg.miniDV tapes can't do the job? A capture device of a small size. Well I saw a recent computer from Shuttle, that little alumnum barebone comp.case for abt $250. It has Firewire, and ability to mount a removable hard drive in one of its 5.25" bays. Cost: $250 unit + cheap Celeron ~$55 and PC133 ram ~$31 for 256MB + 60GB ATA100 HD ~100 + removable casing for HD ~$20, which all comes to total of ~$456. Plus some additional $$ for mouse,keyboard. This is far less compared to firestore and better functionality to some of it's users. I don't want to capture directly to NLE system as our NLE is to big to carry around and has to do other job :). Depending on configuration and and hense needs of the user price might go up, but functionality wise it might be better compared to firestore. One of the possibilities is to add DVRaptor from Canopus which is only $145 on ebay. OS and soft can be configured to start automaticly at startup and you would need just push a key on small keyboard for the capture to start and another key to stop it. In this case is quite attractive to us as our NLE is based on DVStorm SE Plus from canopus and hense captured files compatibility. I'll do more research on this subject, as the need for LCD monitor or alternative to it, OS, etc. Please give me your comments, ideas, well anything that might come to your mind. If something is not clear - Pardon my english :), I'm not native speaker. Kairat S.

April 24th, 2002, 02:30 AM	#249
kaplooee New Boot Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Framcisco Posts: 6	metering Hi, i have 2 questions, the first is that shooting with the xl1s has a horibble viewfinder and the color is far from being correct, There is en exposure meter on the viewfinder but it not really very exact, i think or at least i havnt learned how to use it properly. I know that there was a section on the watchdog FAQ explaining the ISO. But what do you people use in the realy world, with different gain shifts -3db, 0db and +3db. Also how do you guys set the viewfinder to be more or less close to what you see on the monitor. without having an external monitor. i know it wont be very exact but what color have you guys noticed are off and such things. thank you --kaplooee

April 24th, 2002, 11:23 AM	#250
Massimo Scappato Tourist Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Italy Posts: 4	What happens exactly with lower exposure times? There are 25 frames per second - PAL - with all the shutter speeds? Yes! What happens exactly with shutters speed inferior to 1/50 sec? From 1/8 to 1/50 for Canon XL1 s (PAL), for example. Are there less frames? Or there is duplication of fields/frames (the total number of fields per second does not change... I am not 100% sure of it, however). Example: with 1/25 sec shutter speed every field is exposed for so much time that the following one is the same field copied by the camera from his memory? This is a question: I do not know the answer. Regarding the memory I read that many DV cameras use the digital frame buffer of the camera in conjunction with a variable clock on the CCDs to accumulate more than a field's worth of light on the face of the chip before transferring the image to the buffer and thence to tape. This can do two things for you: more light integration, and slower frame update rates. What does slower frame update mean? (in terms of fields, copied fields (if any), frame rate) ?? Thanks in advance to whoever will help me, Massimo

April 24th, 2002, 02:07 PM	#251
Justin Chin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 227	NP1 Battery Usage I have a set of NP1 batteries and charger (all IDX) and wondered if anyone here knows of any various ways to use these batteries with the XL1. Currently, I like using these batteries because I can power my Sony field monitor with them. I would like to buy more and perhaps extend their use to the XL1. Thanks __________________ justin www.monsterrocket.com Filmmaker \| Cinematographer

April 24th, 2002, 09:07 PM	#252
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Saw this at NAB, Justin... looks like it's exactly what you need. http://www.aspenelectronics.com/aspen_products/specialized/xl7a.htm http://www.aspenelectronics.com/aspen_products/specialized/xl7b.htm __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 25th, 2002, 09:45 AM	#253
Thomas Berg Petersen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 111	XL1S PAL experiences Dear Dvinfo, I am sorry to bother everyone again. But spending a small fortune on a DV camera as well as everything that comes with it, makes the choice of what to buy a big decision. I just wanted to ask XL1S PAL users if they could post their experiences with regards to: 1. What kind of projects do you use the XL1S PAL for? 2. What is your set up e.g. Mac/PC, NLE system/brand, monitors, capturecard, DV deck, lights, mics etc. 3. Does anyone use a Mac to convert PAL to NTSC for VHS video copies? What kind of software or solution can you recommend? I am looking forward to contributing to this forum later once I buy and have my own experiences using the XL1S myself. Best regards, Thomas __________________ Thomas

April 25th, 2002, 10:34 AM	#254
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Thomas, I covered this topic in your other post. But I'll amswer your other questions here. I use my PAL XL1 for everything from shooting extreme sports(surfing, snowboarding, motocross etc) to weddings(only if I really have to). I've output to tape, MPEG2(DVD) and web formats(Quicktime, Windows Media, Real Player, DivX and Flash6) all with good results. I edit it all on a PC running a Pinnacle DV500 out to a JVC S-VHS deck. Back in Australia I just used a 21" JVC TV to monitor the output. Lighting wise I've used everything from Portafloods to Lowells. For audio I've just been using the onboard mic and a Sony Mini Disk Recorder/mic which I sync in post. You can use your NLE software to convert from PAL to NTSC for playback but it isn't the best quality and some form of 3rd party software like motion perfect is required to clean up the jerkyness. Even though it helps it still isn't anywhere near broadcast quality. I am currently living in Japan(NTSC) and my XL1 was purchased in Australia(PAL). Using the PAL camera here has proved to be a pain in the butt as a PAL monitor is required, and everything has to be converted just for people to see what's been shot. I've seen side by side footage NTSC XL1's and you can't tell the difference visually unless you are using Pro gear and scopes. The short of it all is as you are living in NY, I'd suggest you go with NTSC and save yourself time and trouble. It's really not worth the time, money and effort for a lousy 100 lines when it all gets compressed and viewed on a computer screen or a consumer TV which only has a res of about 240 anyway. Hope this helps you in some way __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

April 26th, 2002, 12:56 PM	#255
Guest Posts: n/a	day for night(or is it night for day? I was thinking of shooting a couple night scenes of my film during the day that way I could have more control of the lighting. Such a shot out in the woods, seeing that I can't afford any 20ks and such I thought shooting day for night would provide me more control of the lighting without having the grain issues of raising the db. One thing I'll be doing is whitebalancing on a very light pastel yellow to give me the blue moon cast and of course really shutting down the exposure. i'll be doing some tests next week. Any suggestions? i've never done this before so any help would really be great. thanks.