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Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 01:27 PM   #61
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John,

Quote:
Since they're just now collecting a wish list, they must be a good two years away from releasing an XL2. Dang. My number one on the wish list will be to release it by next year.
Perhaps they are already quite underway with it but just want
to check on their progress (who knows). Or perhaps they've
built a strong enough DSP that can still incorporate your suggested
features.

We'll keep guessing until they announce the "beast"!

Cheers,
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 01:49 PM   #62
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16x9 undistorted

It would be nice to look through the view finder, when in 16x9 mode and see what the image will actually look like instead of the distorted look we get now.

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Old March 2nd, 2003, 02:10 PM   #63
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I concur with most of the thoughtful suggestions already offered. I'll throw in the following few items, some of which have already been noted.

1. Maintain backwards compatibility with the XL lenses. Some of us have invested in all of the XL lenses and would not want to see Canon abandon the line.

2. Improve the industrial design of the camera's body. Although the XL1s features a visually distinctive body design it's a very awkward, front-heavy ergonomic design. The camera's assembled center of gravity needs to somehow be shifted back from the elbow and closer to the shoulder. Perhaps this means straightening the body, moving the battery mount to the rear of the camera and extending the hand-hold an inch?

3. If the FU-1000 is to remain the professional b&w viewfinder option for the camera it would be nice to find a way to restore the battery level indicator's functionality while it's in use. This is a very nasty side-effect of the FU-1000's voltage converter.

4. Eliminate that nasty little "black line" frame border problem, as you did with the GL2.

5. If you plan to offer some type of Flash card facility on the XL2 why not make it more useful for semi/professional shooters? For example, it would be very nice to use it as a scene continuity check facility. The user could take a snapshot at the end of a scene and then "onion-skin" that photo (fron the card) onto the live scene when setting-up for the next shot. (This is similar to what Sony offers on its DSR500/570 cameras via their Memory Stick.) Another useful feature would be the ability to store a full range of camera presets onto the card and then restore them.

Thanks very much for considering our suggestions!
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 03:47 PM   #64
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HD all the way.

What about two different bodies.
If there are people out there that still want SD then one for HD.
Or make a univeral deck.

Flash cards for settings....great idea.

What about LEP (Light Emiting Polymer) for a screen. I dont know where I read about it but its smaller and more compact than any other type of monitor.

Im sure they at canon can figure out a way to keep the same size tapes and retain higher quality. Sony did it with the Mini disc.

What about creating way to mount any lens. maybe its a recessed adaptor that can be changed out but will allow every type of lens work with just the right adaptor.

Anyways Im not sure about what I would like to see with the new ones. I still really enjoy mine. As long as they push the envelope and set a standard. I wouldnt expext anything less.


Rob:D

PS maybe also Bluetooth enabled, so no need for tape all you need is laptop and a small program that will save the incoming transmition real-time.
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 04:31 PM   #65
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Most things have already been mentioned and I guess the main thing Canon need to do, if they want a decent share of the market is to produce something that's revolutionary and not evolutionary. I'm not sure how the new Panny is doing, but now is a prime time to break the mold yet again with the new Canon. They don't alway want to be playing catchup do they?
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 05:04 PM   #66
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If there was one thing for Canon to do to revolutionize all DV cameras and come out ahead, I would say it would be to use hard disk based storage instead of the traditional tape. Then there is no rewinding or fast forwarding and you could play any clip or shot in a secondís notice. This would also allow for the "onion skin" mentioned in Ken's post and transfers to your NLE would be much faster and easier. The possibilities would be endless. It would need to be very well designed and thought out for everything to work smoothly.
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 06:21 PM   #67
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Has anyone mentioned a time-lapse feature? I glanced quickly through all four pages...so if it's already mentioned, my apologies.
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 06:24 PM   #68
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Scott, yeah that would be amazing. I've often wondered why companies haven't released a dv sized HD that acts like a tape. Pop it into normal dv cameras but you get all that space, and speed. Remove it and plug your firewire cable into it and voila. Obviously there is more to it than I think but it would be awesome to have something like that. I guess all the usual things like bit depth, ccd size, 16:9 etc will be hard to fit into a sub $5k camera.

I wonder what Canon's profit margins are for the XL1s? Could the make it narrower to achieve acceptance?
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 06:59 PM   #69
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<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Tesh : <<<-- Originally posted by Dylan Couper :

A "Film Look" mode, where, frame, colour and sharpness settings are pre-tweaked to give a more film-like look. This would be a big hit I think. -->>>

I think Canon would be selling themselves short if they added just one film look setting. I've already suggested a "Virtual Stock" ability which I think would be nicer since it would allow US to tweak the settings.
-->>>

I must have skimmed over your post. Yes, the "Virtual Stock" thing is what it needs.
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 09:34 PM   #70
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What about if this new camera used the new Four Thirds system (4/3) so that you could use lenses made by anyone on it?

Just a thought. I don't know whether or not Canon will embrace this new system.
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Old March 2nd, 2003, 10:09 PM   #71
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I'd like to see some of digital still camera features incorporated into the XL series. More white balance presets, flouro, warm, or even just temp settings: 2800k, 3200k, 5600k, user selectable in steps of 50k, etc. This would make balancing with commercially available lights much easier.

Selectable format would be nice, PAL/NTSC, as well as selectable languages. This would make it much easier for people like myself who travel between PAL and NTSC countries to work. As my camera is PAL it makes it difficult for me to do much more than just web work here in Japan.

Bigger chips would be nice but as that would mean new lenses then I can live with 1/3". True 16:9 that masks to 4:3 would go a long way as would some way of taking a feed straight off the chips. Sony has an acc. that does this for the PD-10 (it think that was the camera) and it wouldn't be difficult to incorporate a simple plug to accomodate this kind of adapter.

The stock mic is ok but maybe something a little more directional would be nice.

The final thing would be to sell the camera just like an SLR system. That way customers could choose the configuration that best suits their needs.

Just as Rob did, I'd like to thanks Canon for taking the time to talk to Chris and listen to what the users want. I've been using Canon cameras for a long time and it's things like this that keep me continuing to use the EOS/XL range.
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Old March 3rd, 2003, 10:35 AM   #72
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Support for native 16:9.

Continuing with the current lens family. Like Dylan I would like to see a standard lens mount, but I would still rather continued support for current lens system.

A better more usable EVF. The EVF should show more of the entire frame.

No resolution loss in frame or progressive scan.

Drop digital still capabilities. By gosh, this is a camcorder, not a still cam!

4-track audio at 16 bit resolution. Hey we can ask can't we?

HD. If we wanna think big, think big.
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Old March 3rd, 2003, 12:45 PM   #73
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Hi gang and Canon engineers,

IMO, we can ask for the world, but there are certain aspects that will
eliminate features simply because of cost and physics. Therefore,
I think there are two paths for Canon to pursue.

***PATH #1: Update existing XL1 (Evolution)***

Having experienced the Panasonic Varicam HD camcorder in person and seen
the Panasonic DVX100's output, I think Panasonic is on the right path.
Okay, so the question is; how do you make a better (than Panasonic) NTSC/PAL mouse trap?

The DVX100 has 1/3rd inch CCDS and it's image is pretty nice.
I don't know what else is available for Canon
to license/use, but I would love MUCH MORE resolution than is provided by the XL1s,
so at the _very least_, I would go with the progressive scan 1/3" Panasonic CCDs.

A better viewfinder is key. Pack as many pixels into it as possible, at least double
what is there now. What you see is the _whole_ image, with the choice for adding
4x3 TV (underscan) and 4x3 title safe boxes (different colors), 16x9 whole and 16X9
underscan. All of these boxes at the same time if you want.

You can output zebra to composite or s-video jack.

Better low light handling. The XL1 should be able to go head to head with a VX2000 and have a signal just as clean or cleaner.

Better handling of contrast ala JVCs 12 bit processing, maybe with the ability to hard limit the whites so you don't have to crush the blacks in direct sunlight.

Memory stick for:
-Multiple (10-100) individual/situational camera settings (& quick call back)
-"Bug" insert(s)
-Scene (matching/onionskin) overlay
-Still image capture. (Still capture should be much higher than NTSC resolution if possible.)

Smooth iris dial at thumb, NOT stepped.

True time lapse: 1 frame capture (not a second(s) or more) at
intervals from .5 second to an hour (or more).

Color gamma choices like the DVX100.

Real SMPTE bars and 1K test tone output/record to tape.

Recording flavors (like DVX100)
-24 & 25 fps straight, 24 & 25 fps with pulldown,
-30 FPS
-NTSC 60i and PAL 50i. (Swiss army knife recording)
-60 FPS would be nice for real slo mo.

SDI uncompressed ITR-601 NTSC or PAL output during acquisition.

Timecode in and out of various recording flavors and/or time code
record track.

Scene/shot recall. Takes you back to the beginning of last shot.
Also numbers shots/trigger presses. Mark shot good, bad and questionable.

External analog video/audio input to output via firewire (instant transcode).

Motion sensor (variable trigger level) to toggle camera into record (wildlife baiting).

Better audio filtering. Get analog to digital filters that compare with a high end DAT machine.
Built in audio digital processing compressor/super hard limiter (Manual adjustment)L.
Ability to take mic level, -10dbv and +4dbv inputs without distortion
(No need for external pads).
Maybe 24bit 96K sampling as an option.
XLR inputs with Phantom power option.

More powerful headphone amp.

Ability to lock on record (cannot accidentally be turned off).

Ability to set two focus lengths and the time it takes to rack between
those two focus set points.

Two firewire 6 pin sockets for daisy chaining.


***PATH #2: XL1HD (Revolution and this is a REAL PIPE DREAM)****

Steal the guts out of the Panasonic Varicam
and put it into a a small camera body,
except use a single (or 3) super high res. CCD(s) that work
with 35mm Canon EOS glass without "issue."
This would include auto focus, etc.

Choices of camera _Record and Output_ flavors:
-Variable frame rate 720P HD @ 8bit recording just like the
Varicam w/ 4-60 FPS choice.
-24fps NTSC with pulldown (DVX100 style)
-Regular NTSC and PAL SD.
-SDI uncompressed 10bit SMPTE 292M (720P) HD _output_ during acquisition.

Audio Record Choices :
-8 tracks 16 bit 48 KHZ delivered via TDIF or ADAT optical input/output.
-4 tracks at 20 bit 48KHZ,
-2 tracks at 24bit 96 KHZ via 2 really nice mic preamps
-2 tracks at 1.25MHZ.

Viewfinder: Super dense and bright OLED (switch between B&W or color).

Wireless video transmitter built in for outboard monitor or for use with optional OLED helmet/glasses viewfinder.
(To be used in outdoor applications without the problems caused by ambient light corruption.)
User can choose to output zebra to this feed at 80, 90, 100% levels.

Wireless remote ability (Bluetooth?): Can control all camera settings
and functions including and zoom and focus for EOS lens.
(yes, hardware accessory required for zoom and focus okay with me Canon).

Motion sensor (adjustable) to trigger record, and then to stop recording after user preset time.

Scene/shot recall. Takes you back to the beginning of last shot.
It also numbers shots/trigger presses. Can also mark shots good, bad and
questionable.

Memory stick for:
-multiple (10-100) individual/situational camera settings (w/ quick call back).
-"Bug" insert(s)
- Scene (matching/onionskin) overlay.
-Still image capture. (Still capture should be higher than HD resolution if possible.)
-Overscan, underscan, title & action safe, and film aspect ratios colored boxes.

Smooth iris dial at thumb, NOT stepped.

Time lapse: 1 frame capture (NOT a second or more) at intervals from .5 second
to an hour (or more).

Timecode in and out with all the TC record choices (see video flavors)

Magic wand to hold all shots perfectly still or move with
steadicam fluidity and correct camera framing following the
shot the director/cameraman sees in his/her head ;)
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Old March 4th, 2003, 01:06 AM   #74
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Wow -- some excellent responses! This thread remains open (always will be), so keep it coming. There's a little more time as I'm giving a hard copy to CUSA at 4:00pm PST Tues. March 4th.
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Old March 4th, 2003, 05:26 PM   #75
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This one is too late... but I just thought of REAL timecode in/out..
Don't know if anyone else mentioned that....
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