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Old February 8th, 2006, 10:35 PM   #1
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Frame Rate Mode

Let me double check this - when you're in frame rate mode, what shutter does the camera use in the TV and AV mode?

Okay, now I switch to MANUAL - what shutter can I use ?? Is it going to be in the frame rate mode?? (Still at 30p)??

I guess, to preserve the look closest to the fluidness of real film cameras, I want to be closest to 24 fps....on video, you can get to 30p....If I have my handheld meter set up to 60p, and I want to shoot at 30p on the manual mode, do I just close down the iris a stop to compensate??

Thanks again, and again, and again.....(infinity)
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Old February 9th, 2006, 12:45 PM   #2
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I'm not sure I'm exactly following your questions, I'll give it a try:

1) in full manual you control everything, including shutter speed

2) in TV mode you set the shutter speed and the camera controls gain and iris so you get "proper" exposure

3) in AV mode you set the aperture (f-stop) and the camera controls gain and shutter so you get "proper" exposure

(I might have 2 & 3 switched, I sometimes forget which is which since I mainly use manual)

I don't use a meter either. I try to use a monitor on set when I can and usually work with the zebra stripes to make sure it is properly exposed.

Of course that totally depends on your workflow and what you're comfortable with.
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Old February 9th, 2006, 02:55 PM   #3
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frame rate

Thanks for the response. I guess, what I'm trying to do is to be shooting in the frame rate mode...in manual.....so I guess, when I'm in that mode, I put the camera on 30p to get the nearest thing to the "film look" ....Is that closer to the true film look than 60p??
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Old February 9th, 2006, 04:11 PM   #4
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The camera has no 60p. This is what the camera has (NTSC model):

1) 60i -> 60 *fields* (half-frames) per second -> interlaced

2) 30p -> 30 *frames* per second -> semi progressive

Semi progressive because frame mode (30p) is an emulation of real progressive,
but it is a good one!

Most people who go after "the film look" put the camera in 30p with a shutter
of 1/60. Gain usually at -3 or 0 db (to minimize noise) and sometimes the
aperture fully open (f 5.6) with a zoom in and if needed ND filter engaged
(too much light otherwise), or added ND filter on the front of the lens.
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Old February 9th, 2006, 04:47 PM   #5
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Dean

I wish to second what Rob stated.

You may find that 1/60 of a second shutter speed is useful for "Frame Mode".

If you use a much faster shutter, you may obtain a strobing effect, especially in backgrounds as you pan.

By the way, to help make this make more sense, the mode is "Frame Mode" and not "Frame Rate Mode". You can shot in "Frame Mode" with whatever shutter speed you desired, but most find the 1/60th gives them the desired effect.
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Old February 9th, 2006, 05:23 PM   #6
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Frame Rate

Okay, you lost me with the 30p and shutter of 60th...

Okay, If I'm shooting in the Frame Mode (what exactly does this do) Is this the 30p you are talking about?

Okay, so you're saying if I shoot at shutter of 30th....I will not be at 30p??

I'm using tungsten lighting...I put my camera on manual, shoot at 30 shutter...isn't this the shutter I should be at to get a film look?? I guess I"m not sure what 30p and 30shutter is?? I thought they were one in the same...and where does the frame mode come in..I'm must be really dense...I'll need you to "draw me a picture".
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Old February 9th, 2006, 06:08 PM   #7
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A NTSC video signal is always interlaced. Two fields (odd lines and even lines) spaced by 1/60th sec. However, the video can be shot progressive in that both fields of the frame are captured at the same instant. But as NTSC, they are played back 1/60 apart in time (interlaced). This results in some motion artifacts similar to the movie look - e.g., the strobing/stutter in fast pans.

Canon's frame mode emulates progressive by capturing both fields of the video frame at the same instant. It creates the two fields by using a pixel shift method that is better than field duplication (used in some camcorders), but not quite up to true progressive scan vertical resolution.

The default shutter speed is typically 1/60, but you can select other speeds. The shutter speed is to how long the CCD is capturing light to form the image, and is not related to the frame/field rate of the NTSC video, althoug shutter speed below 1/60 will not provide smooth motion standard NTSC video because the image in each fiedl is not updated as often.
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Old February 9th, 2006, 06:29 PM   #8
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Strange thing happening with my XL1S

so you are saying if I want to have a film look, I should be in frame mode and set the shutter on 60th.....and it will look the best? Now, If I shoot with 30th shutter,and pan action or have action in the viewfinder, it will come out blurry and also not have the "true" look of film movement??

Also, weird thing happening here....I have the 16X, camera on tripod, lens zoomed out, focusing on a picture frames on the wall...shooting down the hall...I focus on a distant picture frame, and then focus on a frame in the foreground - I mark the lens with a piece of gaffer's tape at the point where I end the foreground focus (like I was racking focus)....the strange thing is....the focus ring doesn't always end up at the same tape mark - I have the camera turned on in the manual mode and manual focus (without tape in) and just practicing racking with the 16X zoom lens...but the focus mark changes...IS THIS NORMAL?? I was reading somewhere in the manual, that as the camera's internal temperatures raise, the lens may need to be re-focused....Has anybody had this happen to them??
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Old February 9th, 2006, 07:39 PM   #9
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Dean--

The focus ring is actually only controlling a servo -- there is no direct coupling to the lens. The position of the ring is meaningless -- it's motion just causes the servo to move. A true manual focus lens will give you that feature -- the stock lens will not.

--vic
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Old February 9th, 2006, 07:44 PM   #10
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thanks Vic

I thought I was losing my mind...
Or I had a Poltergeist moving my gaffer's index mark when I wasn't looking...
But I did notice that if I do a slow rack focus in manual focus, it holds pretty much everytime when I go back to my foreground focus index mark....must be a speed issue...don't turn it fast - and use a monitor...stop focusing when the monitor is clear or the image appears clear in the viewfinder.

When I focus the viewfinder - what is the best way to do this?? Zoom to a far object close-up, focus the lens, and then adjust the viewfinder focus until it looks as sharp as it can get?
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Old February 9th, 2006, 09:08 PM   #11
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Viewfinder focus is not as dependent -- I'd just use a scene that is bright enough to get a decent setting. Your correct on the lens focus, though -- zoom out to maximum, then adjust it. When shooting theater, I always shoot manual, and use the auto-focus button to temporarily override manual when I need to. Also, if your lens jumps out of focus when zooming back out, it can be adjusted by Canon. They usually check this during a tune-up.
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Old February 9th, 2006, 09:13 PM   #12
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What is the general cost on a tune up from canon? I need one, but am concerned about the cost.
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Old February 9th, 2006, 09:20 PM   #13
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My last one was around $200, give or take. If you haven't joined the XL-1 (or XL-2) club, do so. It's free and expedites the turn-around.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 10:28 AM   #14
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Can I join the club even though I bought my cam on ebay?...I have the card for it, but it asks for original purchase information, which I don't know.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 11:59 AM   #15
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where is the club info located??
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