XL1- two questions!! at DVinfo.net

Frank Bogart · May 14th, 2006, 12:48 PM

First of all, nice to meet all of you, this is my first post here.

I bought a used XL1 off ebay and got it this week. It is the first semi-professional camera I had the chance to use and I am happy with it.

However I am having trouble using the 16:9 mode. In most camcorders black bars appear at the top and bottom of the viewfinder when selecting this mode. As you probably already know that does not happen with the XL1. Very disappointing... I tried using my 4:3 TV set as a monitor thinking that perhaps the black bars would appear but they still didn't. My question is: What do I have to do or buy in order to be able to shoot in 16:9 with black bars?

Also I have seen some wide angle lenses at ebay and thinking of getting one. There are the big and expensive Canon lenses ($500-800) and some smaller ones that are sold for about $100-200, like the one shown on the link below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-XL2-XL1s-X...QQcmdZViewItem

Can this small one be attached on the standard lens that comes with the XL1 (16x)? Or should I take the Canon lens off and use this one? If yes will I have a loss in quality?

looking forward to your answers!!!

Cole McDonald · May 14th, 2006, 02:35 PM

I would recommend you shoot 4x3 and go 16x9 in post. If the XL1 doesn't have the framing guides, frame for head space and crop in post.

Frank Bogart · May 14th, 2006, 05:28 PM

Sorry to say but that does not sound like a proper solution to me. I want the material to be widescreen already during capture. Also I am not sure how I could frame my shots for 16:9 without having the black bars. I mean perhaps i could but it wouldn't be accurate framing! Perhaps some lens would do the job??

Greg Boston · May 14th, 2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Bogart

Sorry to say but that does not sound like a proper solution to me. I want the material to be widescreen already during capture. Also I am not sure how I could frame my shots for 16:9 without having the black bars. I mean perhaps i could but it wouldn't be accurate framing! Perhaps some lens would do the job??

When you capture to your NLE, you need to tell it that the incoming footage is anamorphic. Even 16:9 video is still 720X480 (or 720X576 PAL). They merely elongate the horizontal pixels to stretch out the image. You'll also need to set your timeline to anamorphic. When you export the footage to a dvd authoring program, you'll need to tell it that the footage is anamorphic. When you get ready to burn the dvd, you should tell the software to set the anamorphic flag bit on the dvd itself. Make sure your dvd player knows that you have a 4:3 screen connected (usually through a display setup menu). When the player sees this bit on the dvd, it will automatically put black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. If you tell the player you have a 16:9 display and it sees the anamorphic bit, it leaves it alone.

Congrats on the new (to you) XL1. I think it shoots beautiful video.

regards,

-gb-

Cole McDonald · May 14th, 2006, 06:23 PM

When you shoot 16x9 on the XL1 series of cameras, the 16x9 that you capture is cropped from the center of the chip. You lose resolution anyway. Given this fact, I prefer to decide which pieces of resolution go away. If you get a widescreen external monitor, you can view the 16.9 footage, but watch for the overscan on there, you'll catch lots of boom mics and lighting stands at the periphery of the image.

Frank Bogart · May 14th, 2006, 06:27 PM

thank you Greg! actually what concerns me most is to be able to see a 16:9 frame in my viewfinder! I mean what I see now in my viewfinder now is similar to what you see on your 4:3 TV screen when playing an anamorphic DVD without the bars. It plays fullscreen with a squeezed picture.

Cole McDonald · May 14th, 2006, 07:49 PM

The XL1/1s will not show you non squeezed 16x9 in the view finder. You will need to use an external display for that...I have an LCD field monitor that attaches to the RCA composite video out on the back of the handle. It is a 4x3 as I crop in post so I can adjust headroom/vertical framing as I see fit afterwards.

You can purchase an anamorphic add on lens to squeeze onto the full CCD and then let the NLE know that it's anamorphic footage, but you'll still see squeezed footage in camera...even on an external...but if you anamorphic and 16x9 in camera, you can get a 2.35:1 aspect out of it! (actually, I don't think that'll work - but it'd be fun).

Don Palomaki · May 15th, 2006, 03:27 AM

Would masking the EVF work?

Greg Boston · May 15th, 2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

Would masking the EVF work?

Only if he was going to shoot 4:3 and crop in post. He stated that he doesn't like that option so I'm afraid he's going to have to get used to looking at skinny subjects, even though it is showing accurate framing.

-gb-

Greg Boston · May 15th, 2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Bogart

Also I am not sure how I could frame my shots for 16:9 without having the black bars. I mean perhaps i could but it wouldn't be accurate framing! Perhaps some lens would do the job??

You are seeing accurate framing, it's just going to look squshed in your vf. Remember, it's the horizontal pixel aspect ratio that you change after the fact (as referenced in my post above). You'd see the same thing if you left the camera in 4:3 and stuck an anamorphic lens on the front.

-gb-

Frank Bogart · May 15th, 2006, 05:00 PM

I will shoot some stuff in 16:9 just to see how it turns out! I will have to get used to seeing skinny subjects like Greg said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Bogart

Also I have seen some wide angle lenses at ebay and thinking of getting one. There are the big and expensive Canon lenses ($500-800) and some smaller ones that are sold for about $100-200, like the one shown on the link below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-XL2-XL1s-X...QQcmdZViewItem

Can this small one be attached on the standard lens that comes with the XL1 (16x)? Or should I take the Canon lens off and use this one? If yes will I have a loss in quality?

looking forward to your answers!!!

So can any of you answer the above question? Sorry for too many questions. There's just nobody here to help me out with that stuff...

Cole McDonald · May 15th, 2006, 05:06 PM

anything that has a 72mm screw thread will work on the XL series of lenses.

Frank Bogart · May 15th, 2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole McDonald

anything that has a 72mm screw thread will work on the XL series of lenses.

So could you recommend an affordable wide angle lens that has a 72mm screw thread?

Would this one work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wide-Angle-Lens-...QQcmdZViewItem

I think it can be attached on the Canon lens right?

Cole McDonald · May 16th, 2006, 05:14 AM

that should do it...Other option is to get the canon wide angle XL series lens...uch more expensive though:

example (don't know the seller at all or the reputation, quick search)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-3x-Wide-An...QQcmdZViewItem

Dan Keaton · May 22nd, 2006, 12:27 PM

Dear Frank,

If the result you want is 16x9, it is to your advantage to shoot in 4x3.

Then, in post, you can select 16x9 cropping.

But, in the few cases where the shot was not framed perfectly for 16x9, for example if the top of someone's head is missing, just adjust your cropping so that the top of the head is included in the 16x9 frame.

This gives you a second chance on framing.

If you set the camera to 16x9 mode, you will never get that second chance.

The resulting resolution will be the same.

May 14th, 2006, 12:48 PM	#1
Frank Bogart New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 9	XL1- two questions!! First of all, nice to meet all of you, this is my first post here. I bought a used XL1 off ebay and got it this week. It is the first semi-professional camera I had the chance to use and I am happy with it. However I am having trouble using the 16:9 mode. In most camcorders black bars appear at the top and bottom of the viewfinder when selecting this mode. As you probably already know that does not happen with the XL1. Very disappointing... I tried using my 4:3 TV set as a monitor thinking that perhaps the black bars would appear but they still didn't. My question is: What do I have to do or buy in order to be able to shoot in 16:9 with black bars? Also I have seen some wide angle lenses at ebay and thinking of getting one. There are the big and expensive Canon lenses ($500-800) and some smaller ones that are sold for about $100-200, like the one shown on the link below: http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-XL2-XL1s-X...QQcmdZViewItem Can this small one be attached on the standard lens that comes with the XL1 (16x)? Or should I take the Canon lens off and use this one? If yes will I have a loss in quality? looking forward to your answers!!!

May 14th, 2006, 02:35 PM	#2
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	I would recommend you shoot 4x3 and go 16x9 in post. If the XL1 doesn't have the framing guides, frame for head space and crop in post. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

May 14th, 2006, 06:23 PM	#5
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	When you shoot 16x9 on the XL1 series of cameras, the 16x9 that you capture is cropped from the center of the chip. You lose resolution anyway. Given this fact, I prefer to decide which pieces of resolution go away. If you get a widescreen external monitor, you can view the 16.9 footage, but watch for the overscan on there, you'll catch lots of boom mics and lighting stands at the periphery of the image. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

May 14th, 2006, 07:49 PM	#7
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	The XL1/1s will not show you non squeezed 16x9 in the view finder. You will need to use an external display for that...I have an LCD field monitor that attaches to the RCA composite video out on the back of the handle. It is a 4x3 as I crop in post so I can adjust headroom/vertical framing as I see fit afterwards. You can purchase an anamorphic add on lens to squeeze onto the full CCD and then let the NLE know that it's anamorphic footage, but you'll still see squeezed footage in camera...even on an external...but if you anamorphic and 16x9 in camera, you can get a 2.35:1 aspect out of it! (actually, I don't think that'll work - but it'd be fun). __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

May 15th, 2006, 03:27 AM	#8
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	Would masking the EVF work? __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

May 14th, 2006, 05:28 PM	#3
Frank Bogart New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 9	Sorry to say but that does not sound like a proper solution to me. I want the material to be widescreen already during capture. Also I am not sure how I could frame my shots for 16:9 without having the black bars. I mean perhaps i could but it wouldn't be accurate framing! Perhaps some lens would do the job??

May 14th, 2006, 06:27 PM	#6
Frank Bogart New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 9	thank you Greg! actually what concerns me most is to be able to see a 16:9 frame in my viewfinder! I mean what I see now in my viewfinder now is similar to what you see on your 4:3 TV screen when playing an anamorphic DVD without the bars. It plays fullscreen with a squeezed picture.

May 15th, 2006, 05:06 PM	#12
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	anything that has a 72mm screw thread will work on the XL series of lenses. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

May 16th, 2006, 05:14 AM	#14
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	that should do it...Other option is to get the canon wide angle XL series lens...uch more expensive though: example (don't know the seller at all or the reputation, quick search) http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-3x-Wide-An...QQcmdZViewItem __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

May 22nd, 2006, 12:27 PM	#15
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Frank, If the result you want is 16x9, it is to your advantage to shoot in 4x3. Then, in post, you can select 16x9 cropping. But, in the few cases where the shot was not framed perfectly for 16x9, for example if the top of someone's head is missing, just adjust your cropping so that the top of the head is included in the 16x9 frame. This gives you a second chance on framing. If you set the camera to 16x9 mode, you will never get that second chance. The resulting resolution will be the same. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia