do you use frame mode for weddings? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog

Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog
Can't find it on the XL1 Watchdog site? Discuss it here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 19th, 2006, 03:55 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southend-On-Sea, England
Posts: 368
do you use frame mode for weddings?

I was just wondering if people generally used frame mode when shooting weddings? I was thinking surely if I intend on slowing some footage down, its better to shoot without frame mode as the frame rate is higher?
David J. Payne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 05:05 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,291
Some people do. I use normal mode. Depends on whether or not you want the frame-mode motion artifacts.
__________________
dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com
Don Palomaki is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 08:27 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
I prefer frame. Interlaced motion just bothers me. I'm picky though.
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 09:32 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
Interlaced for me. I'm out to present the couple with a beautifully flowing film of their day. Anything that disrupts this smoothness (progressive, frame, slow shutters, cineframe etc) is out as far as I'm concerned.

OK, the Reservoir Dogs sequence with the suits can be messed with, but for the girl keep it smooth and sweet, I say.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 11:02 AM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick
keep it smooth and sweet, I say.
Interestingly, this is precisely the reason I shoot progressive/frame. 30p 1/60 shutter, iris as wide as possible to shorten DoF. Polarizer + ND as needed to keep the iris open and the shutter at 1/60. Set Zebras at 95% and at the least, try to hit just below the last strips on the subject/s. At best, one notch down from the last ones you see in the whole scene. You can spin the polarizer to help with skies and windows a bit.
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 12:47 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
Well maybe it makes a difference in PAL land, Cole. Over here 50i gives a smoothness to motion (camera or subject) that any progressive or pseudo progressive disrupts.

We accept 24p in the cinema for purely historical reasons, but off DVD and into her new LCD TV 50 different fields per second looks a lot smoother.

Like you though I'm constantly trying to shoot as wide open as possible to limit the dof. I've grown up with 100% zebras, so that's what I know and use.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 03:15 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southend-On-Sea, England
Posts: 368
hey tom you live down the road from me.. crazy.
anyway am I right in saying for sequences that are intended to be slowed in post production shooting on frame mode would be a disadvantage?
David J. Payne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2006, 10:22 PM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
I'm going to venture a guess the the difference is a purely aesthetic one as 25p is catching every other 1/50 sec timeslice where the 50i would catch all of the 1/50 sec timeslices. So, technically, 50i would be better, unless you intend to deinterlace at which point, you're throwing away information anyway.

The problem I have with interlacing is the combing during lateral motion within the frame. That is the one thing that kills my viewing pleasure with anything I watch. For that reason alone, I shoot frame mode...it has nothing to do with cinema history as far as I'm concerned, I'm a big fan of 30p over 24p, but I hate interlaced video...it just raises the hackles for me.

I was a photography hobbyist when I was younger and used to shoot sports for the high school newspaper. This perhaps is part of my problem with interlaced video, it ruins the photographic feel of the video for me. I believe each frame should stand alone.

The end though is that you shoot what you feel is the best footage you can which pleases the customer. Some of the difference may be the intended output medium as well, a television is specifically made to display interlaced video, whereas a computer monitor or a projector for a larger screen is made to show progressive.
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2006, 01:32 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
You raise a very good point Cole - that the DVD content should suit the display medium. We've no idea if the client has a 4:3 CRT, a portable DVD player, a Mac or a 16:9 plasma, and anyway, she might want to take her wedding film round to show Auntie Maude who's still with VHS.

It's one of the reasons I delayed moving to 16:9 for so long. I really feel a 4:3 film can be shown in its correct aspect ratio on any screen, whereas a 16:9 film is iffy - some older 4:3 CRTs are happy to letterbox it, others not.

But then again, a good friend has bought an expensive 16:9 B & O TV. Beautiful picture, sure - but no 4:3 option in any of the menus! I was staggered, I can tell you. It's tops of heads or subtitles - you take your pick.

Yes David - in the great scheme of things we're neighbours. And yes, shoot at 1/50th interlaced if you want to slow the footage in post. Shooting in this mode means you record everything that happens in front of the camera, and a slow to half speed means individual fields now become frames.

You lose resolution of course, but at least you have all the info to play with. If you'd shot the original scene at 1/100th sec, say, you'd have ignored half of everything that happened in front of your lens. And beware - many camcorders that use EIS up the shutter speed to 1/100th when the anti-shake is turned on.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon XL1S / XL1 Watchdog

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:53 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network