24P Question

[Stephen van Vuuren]

I'm working in Vegas 5 on Pentium 3.2, 2GB RAM and need single stream, fullrez, playback of lossless 1080p 24fps files (native, not HDV).

What is my best bet for playback, hardware, software and/or codec?

[David Newman]

As you posted your question in the CineForm section is your question for us?

CineForm codecs are visually lossless (you can read what we mean by that here : http://www.cineform.com/technology/quality.htm.) In Connect HD and Aspect HD we do support 1080p playback at HDV resolutions (up to 1440x1080 anamorphic 8bit.) The codec has a progressive mode for improved quality and efficiency -- you don't have to use HDV sources. If you are looking to do film work I would recommend Prospect HD which supports 1920x1080 in 10bit and supports full resolution HDSDI input and output -- this will require a dual processor system.

Read the January issue of Post Magazine for using CineForm Intermediates for film work.

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Yes, it was about the various Cineform options. My project is not film - it's native 1080p at 24fps created in After Effects. Frame size is 1920 X 1080.

I just need to playback it back in lossless codec to be able to accurate see my work.

[David Newman]

We have yet to release a codec only option for this type of work -- although the CFHD codec would work fine. If you are willing to compromise and use 1440x1080 for your previews you could try the free download of Connect HD -- Connect comes with a VfW codec so you can export using After Effects. Many other codecs like HUFFYUV will be too slow at this resolution.

[Luis Otero]

Hello David,

I have material shot with a HD100 in 24P mode. I captured it from the CU-VH1 to Premier Pro; of course, during capturing I cannot see the image as we have discussed before. Then import the clips into a 30P Aspect HD Timeline in Premiere, and when I play it I am able to see it in both, capturing screen and in the CU-VH1 LCD!

So, what is happening? Any pull-down? The motion signature and quality is without a doubt 24P. Any technical explanation of this pleasant behavior (since now I can see it in the LCD spooler)?

Thanks,

Luis Otero

[David Newman]

Sorry you must have missed describing a step. This sentence doesn't make sense to me - "Then import the clips into a 30P Aspect HD Timeline in Premiere, and when I play it I am able to see it in both, capturing screen and in the CU-VH1 LCD!" How can playing on the timeline have anything to do with capture -- they are mutually exclusive.

[Luis Otero]

Sorry for the broken explanation:

1. Shot footage with HD100 in 24P mode
2. Captured clips to the computer using the CU-VH1
3. Opened a 30P Aspect HD 3.4 timeline in Premiere Pro 1.5.1
4. Imported the 24P clips into the project (clips properties labeled as 23.976)
5. Exported to a tape using the CU-VH1
6. I was able to reproduce the footage in the LCD of the "spooler" and in a HD monitor through the Component Video Out with a clear, no doubt motion signature of 24P.

Hope this time was clear to you.

Thanks,

Luis

[David Newman]

It has actually converted 24 to 30 with a not so nice pulldown. Why are you running a 30p timeline?

[Luis Otero]

Just testing before use for a potencial use in broadcast. I did not notice a "not so nice pulldown"; actually, it preserved the 24P motion signature IMHO. What cuantitative and cualitative parameters do you use to evaluate the visual quality of the type of pulldown automaticaly done here?

Thanks for your input,

Luis

[Michael Stewart]

Still not clear on how to do this AND GET A dvd that the DVD player will recognize as progressive

using PPro2, Encore2, Cineform, and Cinemacraft SP


Thanks
Mike

[David Jimerson]

What's not clear? What have you tried, and what problems are you having?

From PP, you'd export a DVD-compliant MPEG-2 (720x480, bitrate of 8000 or less) at a frame rate of 23.976 (or 23.98; you know) and progressive. Encore should then be able to burn that to DVD as a straight 24p file. (Not sure exactly what the settings might be, but I'm sure Help will tell you.)

The player will then add 2:3 pulldown for 60i display on a standard TV, and if it's a progressive-scan player set to display progressively (on a TV which can do that), it'll play it as 24p.

[Jeff Baker]

So I don't want to choose the option in Vegas to create a 24P DVD Mpeg2 with 2-3 pulldown? It's confusing because those default output template settings in Vegas 6... Also the Magic Bullet Suite manual calls for setting pulldown in After Effects for its 24P output.

So don't do this?

[Eric Edwards]

Hey guys, I was hoping you could help me with this problem...I need to get solid 24 progressive frames out of my shooting with the fx1 with no studder or "ghosting", etc. I know that in cineframe 24 frames...with fast motion, you get that blur that is associated with it...

So I went ahead and have been shooting my films with no cineframe, just native 60i (also using redrock's M2 adapter and nikon lenses). So the video is very fast while shooting...anyhow, when I go to capture my footage in Aspect HD, I select remove CF24 pulldown as that gives me 24p. When I view my footage though, I still have some of that ghosting issues and it doesnt look very fluid.

I input this footage into a Cineform Project file in Premiere pro 1.5.1 (24p project file). I still get that ghosting which I figured would be gone...but when I take frame blending off, it goes away...however the video doesnt feel fluid anymore, it more like jumps.

What is the best way of shooting with the FX1 then converting with Cineform HD to get 24p and have my video very fluid with no type of ghosting or anything...

Any help would be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance.

Eric Edwards

[Steven Gotz]

If you want 24p for film out then you need to shoot 60i and have it done professionally. If you just want 24p because you heard that it looks better, it doesn't, then shoot 24f and use Cineform to capture it as 24p.

Why do you want 24p instead of 30p?

[Eric Edwards]

Well ive done stuff in 24p which does look decent...but I will take your word for it....do you think that 30p is better for the cinematic look as well as motion? If so i'll give it a try, ive already shot footage in 60i, so what is the easiest way to put that to 30p using Cineform? ive never done that conversion before...

Anymore info on this would be of great help.