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CineForm Software Showcase
Cross platform digital intermediates for independent filmmakers.


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Old November 13th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #16
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1) We are going to do SDI at some point, and we going to charge more for it as it is professional format. HDMI is a volume market. Yes we are going to use the embedded audio of HMDI, but what if you using are using a separate sound source? The line level inputs simple add another option. It would nice to support direct mic input, but then the analog section get complex/expensive to design. This is the reason the first model with without component video inputs--doable, but it just takes time.

2) With a camera attached recording device, you are not always tethered to an HMDI display. We thing the display will offer a fair amount of design flexibilty, complex menuing and shoot selection. They are not that expensive. We might do a lower cost unit without the display, but I think the display will be compelling as it something much harder for completing solutions to offer.

3) LAN/C or RS-232, are both serial and somewhat easy to implement, FireWire on the other hand would require more hardware design. Adding Firewire would likely cost more than the screen, it terms of engineering effort. If we can get Firewire on the mainboard, the control elements would be nice.

4) SATA would require much higher-end main controller board, cost would go up significantly. Remember the compressed data will only use half the bandwidth of USB2.0, so SATA would be overkill for 1080p24/25/30.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 01:57 AM   #17
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Just two requests from an indie filmmaker

1) Please Make the Screen as Good as Possible (without becoming overly expensive).
I noticed that you have added a "filp screen" option for people using lens adapters (thank you soooo much!). In the same vien, people using lens adapters will naturally use this screen for focusing their footage as well. For this reason the quality of the screen becomes important, because the unit has become a field monitor as well as a recording device. Using this device as a monitor would also make the touchscreen a brawback becaue of fingermarks. I would hope that the navigational buttons would be enough to operate all the neccessary functions.

2) External Hard Drives Plug Directly into the Unit.
I am in complete agreement with Ray Bell (post #3) on this point. By allowing the user to use any external hard drive with this recording device, the unit becomes extreemly portable. The user could carry the hard drive on their rig or on their body, instead of needing an open laptop. I am dreaming of having a few large capacity hard drives stashed in my kitbag for a full day's shooting!

All-in-all I am very exited about this product! I think that it will make an independent fimmaker, with a HDV camera, a force to be rekoned with. I will be following the development of this product with great interest.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 07:37 AM   #18
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So what about component in as well as HDMI for the first version, that way, you cover the Z1U's and the V1U's.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 07:44 AM   #19
 
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David,
Thanx, makes sense.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 08:25 AM   #20
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Two card slots would be nice so that you could hot-swap empty cards in place of full cards for continuous extended record times.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 08:58 AM   #21
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LCD screen isn't too important to me, so I hope it doesn't make the product a whole lot more expensive to have it in there.

I just want to bypass HDV compression and get 4:2:2 from my V1U without having to be tied to a PC w/ a BlackMagic setup.

Going straight into Cineform and having the option of recording to CF and/or external USB hard drive is perfect. I couldn't ask for anything else.

Any idea how quickly a product like this could be built and tested? Will it take longer than 6-8 months?
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Old November 14th, 2007, 09:17 AM   #22
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Amen!

Genius idea, count me in as beta tester.

I'm tired of lugging my 40Lb "mini" PC with Intensity card around the camera...

A couple of points:

- Capture specs seem to imply Cineform Prospect HD. I'm however very happy with capturing into Aspect HD Large. If the box, in fact, is capturing into Prospect, how will I further use the footage on my Aspect system? Will it be at all compatible??

- RCA in: love it! This will free me up from being locked into the low quality of the on-camera sound - and yet, no hurdles of synching in post like with the double system! Question: How will the analog-in RCA audio signal be mixed with the normal digital audio coming via HDMI? Or is there a switch either-or?

- Battery: why not simply have a connector on the back to slide on the Sony batteries that we already have.

- SATA connector would be very lucrative. Solid-state media is still way expensive at high capacity. 32Gb CF card mentioned in your online specs for the box is thought to be $1300 MSRP alone. 16Gb cards go for $250 now. I'd just throw in a $60 200Gb SATA drive powered by your box, and be done. Slightly heavier, but with the belt mount it won't matter much. SATA Raid 1 with 2 hdds would be even better, to ensure no footage is lost due to bad drive. Cost: my cable TV DVR box provides SATA connection, and I use it all the time to record HD shows, and it's great. Maybe you can think of SATA Raid 1 controller for your box.

- Box should have a very well thought-out *belt mount*. With the battery, possible external drive, and analog audio cables in - you can't mount it on the handheld camera effectively. One HDMI cable from handheld cam to the belt-mounted box is no problem.

- Please install the cheapest monitor possible - so not to increase the pricing on that front. No-one will be able to really use it for real camera monitoring unless the monitor is very high quality - HD resolution - much larger size than on-cam display - gives true brightness/color representation - etc... And since I don't think you're aiming for that, why not just lower the expectations and the *price* by keeping the monitor small and cheap, suitable only for rough video viewing and for menues.

- Hey, you may be able to re-package the same solution used in this box, and license it to RED cam makers to use on their cams instead of RedRAW at up to 2K resolution, maybe.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 09:39 AM   #23
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Nice. With an HDMI cam or adaptor, and if the screen rez is high enough, it could be used in place of an external camera mounted LCD. No larger/heavier than a marshall 7" HDA. I would provide a mount to put that on Noga arm.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 11:53 AM   #24
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Well I thought of another good use for your machine.... :-)

Often times I give a presentation with a front projector....

So, Here's the workflow..

Shoot the footage using the Cineform HDMI recorder, take the recorder to the computer and work the editing magic... send the footage back out to
the recorder.

Take the recorder and projector to the seminar, plug it all in and use the recorder as the playback device into the projector...
To make this work I would need to have seperate audio "output" so I could
feed the audio into a sound system.....

That way I'm now showing HD presentations........ very cool

Last edited by Ray Bell; November 14th, 2007 at 04:48 PM.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 11:56 AM   #25
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Ray, we've intended it also for just this purpose (playback). We will inject audio into HDMI - will that work or do you think you need separate audio output? Also, it needs a headphone jack which isn't shown.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 01:18 PM   #26
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Okay, I've posted an update.

I removed the "Non-Committal" comment in the header. The reality is that we want to do this and are actively working on putting the project together.

I've added price. Our target is sub $2000.

I added a headphone jack that was missing.

I also added a section at the bottom of the feature spec that adds many of the comments people have made as feature considerations.

So you don't have to go back to the first post for the URL, here it is again: http://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm

Thanks for the discussion....
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Old November 14th, 2007, 01:42 PM   #27
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Looks great. Can't wait for the product to come out. I would love to be a beta tester for it also :)
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Old November 14th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #28
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David, re. RCA jacks replaced with professional BNC connectors... your box is only semi-professional by design. For instance, the most important part - HDMI input - is flimsy by default (not your fault of course, it's just how the connector standard was designed.)

So if anything, it'd be important to have some plastic hooks to snake HDMI cable between, so it stays in place and does not jump out.

Then, you can do the same for the audio input. I think RCA would be just fine, and certainly better than 3mm connector you're thinking about (the latter wobbles and loses contact, especially since the whole contraption may be belt-worn and moving. This would kill all the advantage of having a great sound if there would be crackles because of bad contact in a 3mm jack.)
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Old November 14th, 2007, 04:55 PM   #29
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Component in and out can be an upgrade option.

This way people who don't have HDMI cams would shell out more for the analog I/O version of your box.

If component-less version of your box sells for $1200, and component IO is another $200, I think it'd seem reasonable to many people.

But... whatever you do... don't take away the analog audio input! I've been pushing for *years* for someone to create a device that'd be able to capture digital video *and* a separate audio source simultaneously to the same video file, eliminating post-production sound synching nightmares that come with double system.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
Ray, we've intended it also for just this purpose (playback). We will inject audio into HDMI - will that work or do you think you need separate audio output? Also, it needs a headphone jack which isn't shown.
David, although HDMI does include audio the projectors dont have a dedicated audio output like speakers and amps...

So if the presentation room doesn't have a sound system I just bring a
big boom box and plug the audio into that....

and so, the RCA jacks would be nice... and possible a switch for input/output.

If you want to keep the interface clean of cables hanging around you might consider a blutooth output for the headphones....???
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