CineForm HDMI Recorder Concept Posted

[Alex Raskin]

..also (sorry if this has already been answered) - why use CF and not SDHC cards in this recorder?

[Robert R. Schultz]

I don't recall if anyone has asked this before, but would you consider using an up-converting feature on the "Solid" to convert from 4:2:2 to the 4:4:4 color space? If it worked effectively, then it would allow these HDV cameras to get pretty close to cinema-like quality as far as acquisition goes. I'm considering the Canon EOS 5D Mark II as a replacement for my Sony V1, but if the Solid can effectively remove color compression, then I'd probably just buy the Solid to go with my V1. I saw what it's like to not have HDV compression the other day when someone showed me what their Pany HVX200s can do, it was far better quality than my camera, but my V1 has the potential to blow away the Pany 200s when paired with the Solid, especially since the V1 has about 50% higher effective horizontal resolution than the Pany 200s, (775 TVL instead of 540 TVL).

[Mike McCarthy]

There would be nothing to gain by upconverting inside the recorder. The SDI or HDMI signal going into the recorder is only going to be a 4:2:2 signal for most cameras. (There is an RGB varient of HDMI, but it is not supported by any camcorder I am aware of.) Converting to 4:4:4 would only increase the datarate needing to be compressed, and therefore the processing power needed, and storage bandwidth required. At this point, in light of the existance of the XDR, I would say that Cineform needs to go one of two ways:

1. The low cost route of HDMI, support 4:2:2, possibly 10bit HDMI 1.3 if reasonably possible, and no analog audio, to save space, cost and weight. This item would have to sell for less than the XDR, and the advantage would be the cheaper HDMI interface.

2. The high end route would be to offer 10 bit recording of SDI 4:2:2, once again, only with embedded audio to save cost and space. Audio can be embeded to the SDI with an external box if needed. The only SDI camera not to embed audio in the SDI stream is the Canon XL-1H. 10bit compressed recording would be the selling point, putting it a step above the XDR in that regard. The only other 10bit aquisition options are SR, D5, and DCinema like SI2K and Red, nothing as small as a Solid mounted to an EX1 or similar camera.
(FFV has the EliteHD which offers 10bit SDI recording to a SATA disk, so that would be the closest competition)

[John Richard]

Keep in mind that Convergent-Design has already announced their intentions to offer a 10 bit option for their XDR.

[Emiliano Martina]

Originally Posted by John Richard

Keep in mind that Convergent-Design has already announced their intentions to offer a 10 bit option for their XDR.

Yes, but the XDR price is $4995!

[Chad Haufschild]

I think I speak for us all when I say a progress update is needed. We've been pretty patient. We just want to know if we can expect a product roll-out in the next 6 to 9 months.

Personally I'm waiting for the hd sdi version for use with my JVC HD250, but the release of the hdmi version would keep me interested and away from other competing tapeless capture products. I love the Cineform codec and would rather spend my money on this device than a HDV hard drive recorder.

I'm shooting another feature in April and would love to use this product for that production. HDV to Aspect HD has improved the quality of my current project greatly (The Terror has Awakened). Capturing directly to Cineform would make my next project even better.

Thanks.

[Anmol Mishra]

Since nothing has happened, and there is no feedback from Cineform :-( lets consider a DIY mini-ITX PC with touchscreen. There have been a few threads on this, a couple built (including mine)..
Ahs anyone tried the new Penryn LV Core 2 Duo CPUs for Cineform. These are only 1.8 GHz max, but have a 1066 FSB for faster memory access and have a 6MB cache so there should be some performance increase to allow for Cineform recording with a lower clock speed CPU..
David, can you at least check if Cineform will work on a laptop with these specs ??
I am looking at battery solutions - and also a touchscreen daylight readable display (transflective LCD) so there may be an option to make a custom enclosure that will serve as a recorder + external monitor..

[Richard Leadbetter]

1.8GHz won't handle CineForm realtime capture.

Check out the HP Pavilion Slimline. Mini-ITX. PCIe x16 and x1 slots. I've got a Q9300 in mine. About 3 inches shorter than a PS3, but two inches deeper. I reckon an Intensity (not Pro) would fit in there. Refurbs are dirt cheap from eBay and even cheaper on uBid. I got a Q9300 model with graphics card, TV tuner, 4GB of RAM and 500GB SATA drive for $550. Mine has been rock-solid and I max out the CPU for hours on end using it as a VC-1 encoding workhorse.

If you want to mod in a touchscreen, there's plenty of space if you remove the optical drive and cut out a portion of the lid. There'd just be the problem of the connections but I can't see that being a big issue so long as you can find the USB and VGA pins on the motherboard/graphics card.

[Alex Raskin]

Richard - how do you power this mobile rig in the field?

How much does it weigh and what are the mounting options?

It sure would be great if Cineform delivered the recorder soon though...

[Richard Leadbetter]

I don't use it in the field. It's on my desktop! I bought it mainly for the dual PCIe slots, the fact that a Core 2 Quad is supported (though weirdly you can't put your own Q9300 in there, it has to have been in there from purchase) and also because it's mini-ITX. I power it through the mains ;) It has a 180w PSU if that's any indication on power-draw.

At a guess I'd say it weighs around 7kg.

HP sure make robust PCs. This thing is beautifully built.

[Alex Raskin]

That's a bit of an issue, since what you and I have (desktop HD capture systems) cannot really be used effectively in the field.

And that's what Cineform recorder promised.

In other words, we kinda need nanoFlash that records in Cineform ProspectHD codec natively.

[Richard Leadbetter]

In fairness, we were talking mini-ITX systems. These are usually using lower-power mobile CPUs, usually only having one PCIe slot, and usually cost a fortune in parts. My suggestion solves all of these issues, is dirt cheap and even has a manufacturer's warranty. And yes, it's mini-ITX - standard parts - so you can liberate them all for your custom enclosure.

[George Kroonder]

There is always the Wafian HF for mobile in-the-field Cineform recording if you don't want to DIY a solution.

George/

[Alex Raskin]

Wafian HR you mean?

It is no smaller than our DIY solutions based on desktop PCs, and is 10x more expensive.

This of course is completely different from the Cineform concept of on-camera, small, lightweight HD recorder.

[Anmol Mishra]

1.8GHz may work IF Cineform is SSE4 optimized..
Check these benchmarks for SSE4 optimized Penryn vs Merom
AnandTech: Intel Mobile Penryn Benchmarked: Battery Life Improves Again