CineForm HDMI Recorder Concept Posted

Klas Persson · November 25th, 2007, 10:23 PM

Well, I kind of like the modular world. Where I can get an adapter for my old set of takumars, a hv20 and a device like this for hdmi capture. You know with a follow focus from there and a matte box from there and maybe a monitor from there. Then maybe in the future I could upgrade the camera or maybe get a PL mount to my Brevis.

If you buy a camera with it all you're stuck with it and when it becomes yesterday's news and you'll have to upgrade the whole camera... Instead of just using the camera as a sensor. Which I think is the future by the way.

Modular design makes a whole lot of sense to me. With a nice set of rails to attach the monster to...

David Taylor · November 27th, 2007, 07:29 PM

Thanks are due to Nathan Ottley for submitting a professional-looking concept illustration for the CineForm recorder which is now posted on the Recorder product page: https://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm. The concept is still subject to change, but this is a great start!

Alex Raskin · November 27th, 2007, 07:43 PM

Lovely!

Is Nathan a member here?

Jim Andrada · November 27th, 2007, 09:40 PM

Looks nice - but where is Analog component in? A lot of cameras (ie JVC 110U) don't have HDMI!!!

David Newman · November 27th, 2007, 10:22 PM

We starting with HDMI as it is less expensive to design. Analog in is definitely on the list for second generation features.

Jim Andrada · November 27th, 2007, 11:17 PM

It may be less expensive to design, but I think it will also cut the potential size of the market quite substantially.

No way I could use it unless I were to get rid of my JVC camera - which I'm not about to do in the next few years:<(

Damn! I already had my checkbook out. Guess I'll have to put it away for a while!

Alex Raskin · November 27th, 2007, 11:28 PM

HDMI. HD-SDI. Component.

First iteration of the recorder, obviously, must draw the line somewhere.

Even Cineform can't be good for *everyone*.

...Or can it? :)

Bill Ravens · November 28th, 2007, 08:04 AM

There are several ~$300 component to DVI/HDMI adapters around.

Richard Leadbetter · November 28th, 2007, 08:49 AM

To get some idea of scale, that is the size of the LCD display in the concept render?

Jim Andrada · November 28th, 2007, 09:06 AM

I know about the component to HDMI, but it sort of defeats some of the key features of the CineForm box I think - it raises the price, adds more opportunity to degrade the signal, and most importantly it's another piece of stuff to schlep around.

Oh well - have to wait for the second release, I guess:<(

James Huenergardt · November 28th, 2007, 09:49 AM

Maybe something like this would work along with the Cineform box for those of us wanting SDI sooner.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...I_to_HDMI.html

Of course, I'd rather have a direct SDI connection from my Sony EX1.

I also LOVE the idea of two flash cards. It would allow longer shoots.

David Taylor · November 28th, 2007, 10:05 AM

At first glance it seems less expensive (to an end user) to include component input in the first recoder design. But as soon as we add analog circuitry it adds to the complexity of the design and the cost of the HDMI recorder will increase proportionately (for all users). While we recognize the value of component input, we are "erring" first on the side of design simplicity and low (as we can get it) cost.

We have on our list to investigate possibly including a power connector to drive an external converter box. That would at least simplify the use of an external converter.

David Taylor · November 28th, 2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Leadbetter

To get some idea of scale, that is the size of the LCD display in the concept render?

The illustration is not to scale as it relates to the LCD. Per some earlier discussions in the thread, the color LCD is intended for parameter setup and shot review. It will be an inexpensive panel, perhaps something like on an iPod or on a WM cell phone. In other words, functional pictures for review, but not intended to replace the LCD monitor on your camera.

Ron Evans · November 28th, 2007, 06:33 PM

For me, as a recorder from any of the HDV/DV camcorders the simpler the device that's the lowest cost is preferable. HDMI in only, no analogue input, LED's or VERY simple display to show status, especially record, two bays for flash cards, USB to laptop USB drive( even make this an option if there are two card slots), no play capability. Provide system connector for additional cradle unit with LCD, HDMI out etc. In other words separate the encode from decode functions. Even consider a base unit like a Beachtech that screws under the camcorder. You will be competing against a Blackmagic Intensity in a micro PC that can be put together for less than $1000 including 2G RAM and 250G hard drive including the Intensity card. The difference will be convenience/size. IF one is in the studio I feel the Intensity card is a better solution direct to the editing PC. SO small and low cost is what would be appealing to me.

Ron Evans

Zack Birlew · November 28th, 2007, 06:34 PM

I could see the HDMI version as a start and then having a set of new models with perhaps just component and another with just HD-SDI. Price differences between models would be an obvious end result but that way everyone would be happy in the end and the product can be released ASAP.

November 25th, 2007, 10:23 PM	#166
Klas Persson New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sweden Posts: 19	Well, I kind of like the modular world. Where I can get an adapter for my old set of takumars, a hv20 and a device like this for hdmi capture. You know with a follow focus from there and a matte box from there and maybe a monitor from there. Then maybe in the future I could upgrade the camera or maybe get a PL mount to my Brevis. If you buy a camera with it all you're stuck with it and when it becomes yesterday's news and you'll have to upgrade the whole camera... Instead of just using the camera as a sensor. Which I think is the future by the way. Modular design makes a whole lot of sense to me. With a nice set of rails to attach the monster to... Last edited by Klas Persson; November 25th, 2007 at 11:10 PM.

November 27th, 2007, 07:29 PM	#167
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Thanks Nathan.... Thanks are due to Nathan Ottley for submitting a professional-looking concept illustration for the CineForm recorder which is now posted on the Recorder product page: https://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm. The concept is still subject to change, but this is a great start!

November 27th, 2007, 10:22 PM	#170
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	We starting with HDMI as it is less expensive to design. Analog in is definitely on the list for second generation features. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

November 28th, 2007, 08:49 AM	#174
Richard Leadbetter Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 323	To get some idea of scale, that is the size of the LCD display in the concept render? __________________ Company Website: Digital Foundry Ltd Video Games HD Blog: Digital Foundry@Eurogamer

November 28th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#180
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	I could see the HDMI version as a start and then having a set of new models with perhaps just component and another with just HD-SDI. Price differences between models would be an obvious end result but that way everyone would be happy in the end and the product can be released ASAP. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

November 27th, 2007, 07:43 PM	#168
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Lovely! Is Nathan a member here?

November 27th, 2007, 09:40 PM	#169
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Looks nice - but where is Analog component in? A lot of cameras (ie JVC 110U) don't have HDMI!!!

November 27th, 2007, 11:17 PM	#171
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	It may be less expensive to design, but I think it will also cut the potential size of the market quite substantially. No way I could use it unless I were to get rid of my JVC camera - which I'm not about to do in the next few years:<( Damn! I already had my checkbook out. Guess I'll have to put it away for a while!

November 27th, 2007, 11:28 PM	#172
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	HDMI. HD-SDI. Component. First iteration of the recorder, obviously, must draw the line somewhere. Even Cineform can't be good for everyone. ...Or can it? :)

November 28th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#173
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	There are several ~$300 component to DVI/HDMI adapters around.

November 28th, 2007, 09:06 AM	#175
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	I know about the component to HDMI, but it sort of defeats some of the key features of the CineForm box I think - it raises the price, adds more opportunity to degrade the signal, and most importantly it's another piece of stuff to schlep around. Oh well - have to wait for the second release, I guess:<(

November 28th, 2007, 09:49 AM	#176
James Huenergardt Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 513	Maybe something like this would work along with the Cineform box for those of us wanting SDI sooner. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...I_to_HDMI.html Of course, I'd rather have a direct SDI connection from my Sony EX1. I also LOVE the idea of two flash cards. It would allow longer shoots.

November 28th, 2007, 10:05 AM	#177
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	At first glance it seems less expensive (to an end user) to include component input in the first recoder design. But as soon as we add analog circuitry it adds to the complexity of the design and the cost of the HDMI recorder will increase proportionately (for all users). While we recognize the value of component input, we are "erring" first on the side of design simplicity and low (as we can get it) cost. We have on our list to investigate possibly including a power connector to drive an external converter box. That would at least simplify the use of an external converter.

November 28th, 2007, 06:33 PM	#179
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	For me, as a recorder from any of the HDV/DV camcorders the simpler the device that's the lowest cost is preferable. HDMI in only, no analogue input, LED's or VERY simple display to show status, especially record, two bays for flash cards, USB to laptop USB drive( even make this an option if there are two card slots), no play capability. Provide system connector for additional cradle unit with LCD, HDMI out etc. In other words separate the encode from decode functions. Even consider a base unit like a Beachtech that screws under the camcorder. You will be competing against a Blackmagic Intensity in a micro PC that can be put together for less than $1000 including 2G RAM and 250G hard drive including the Intensity card. The difference will be convenience/size. IF one is in the studio I feel the Intensity card is a better solution direct to the editing PC. SO small and low cost is what would be appealing to me. Ron Evans