CineForm HDMI Recorder Concept Posted

[Giroud Francois]

sorry i do not read all this huge thread, so some of my comments could be redundent.

IMHO, LCD is a pain on such device. You get a a box with a side covered by a very fragile glass (unless you add a cover acting like sunshade when deployed) , sucks battery like hell, not really usefull for preview.
If you replace the HDMI plug with DVI plug, you got better mechanics (can be secured with screws) and adapter are easily found.
ideally the DVI out could be send to a PC monitor (22 or 24") to get real monitoring

[Fredrik-Larsson]

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

sorry i do not read all this huge thread, so some of my comments could be redundent.

IMHO, LCD is a pain on such device. You get a a box with a side covered by a very fragile glass (unless you add a cover acting like sunshade when deployed) , sucks battery like hell, not really usefull for preview.
If you replace the HDMI plug with DVI plug, you got better mechanics (can be secured with screws) and adapter are easily found.
ideally the DVI out could be send to a PC monitor (22 or 24") to get real monitoring

Well, one of the reasons behind a display is that you need to use it for configuration such as filename, quality et.c. But a good thing would be to be able to turn the display off so it don't suck power.

[Alex Raskin]

If, in fact, there is DVI out, then it should not just pass through the HDMI signal, but map it onto the monitor's pixels (which currently do not match HD resolutions at 1920x1200 or 1680x1050 etc.) and monitor's refresh rates (60Hz, 75Hz etc.)

So it should be in addition to the HDMI out on the recorder, and not instead of it.

[James Huenergardt]

Any updates on progress for the 'Solid' device?

[Brent Graham]

I can't wait for this! At first, I was thinking of upgrading my Canon XH-A1 to Sony's PMW-EX1, but... this is way better, and CHEAPER!!!

I've loved Cineform since first sight, you guys are awesome.

Although, having the A1, I will definitely need a component-HDMI converter. Hopefully that debuts on the same day the recorder does!


THANKS CINEFORM!!!

[Brent Graham]

So....

Would something like this work?

Is this the price range we'd be looking at for a converter?!

If so, that's great, I was thinking it was much more intensive/expensive.

http://store.customcableconnection.com/hdmc-spdif.html

http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orde...&rsite=f.85506

[Elliott Tucker]

My comments could be redundant (entire thread not read). I apologize for this long post, but I am not a professional videographer. I want to use your device educationally to record entire stage play and opera live rehearsals and performances (both indoor and outdoor) and quickly post result on a website and/or make private dvd for performers. If possible but not essential, for a few events I would like to use 3 or more cameras (each at different angles) – each camera using your recorder - and later make an edited dvd of the event by selectively editing among the different angles. Camera and Cineform operators will mostly be students. We do not want to record to tape or non-removable hard drive. We record in many different venues. We will sometimes use many external microphones mixed live to 2-channel stereo. My suggestions:

1. EXTERNAL DRIVES. Provide separate external drives of various capacities (similar to nNovia) for use with the Cineform recorder. Entire event up to 3 ½ hour must record on one drive. After recording, the drive would be unattached and the drive sent elsewhere for use by a trained NLE/Cineform pc/mac user to add title/credit wording to the recorded video and then post the result to the archive/web and/or make dvds. The Cineform recorder with a new external drive would remain attached to the camera ready to Cineform record (or already recording) the next event at the same time the Cineform recording of the previous event is being processed elsewhere.
2. TOUCH SCREEN vs HARD BUTTON CONTROLS. Why BOTH? Your illustrated design with both touch screen controls and hard button controls is potentially confusing to users. To resolve, make screen non-touch OLED viewable in all lighting conditions and back-light all hard button controls (similar to Edirol R-44). Design mounting methods to ensure screen and button controls are accessible and viewable at all times under all lighting conditions.
3. FOOL-PROOF USABILITY BETWEEN CAMERA AND CINEFORM RECORDER. Under all circumstances, backlight the Cineform record button as solid red when Cineform is recording and blinking red when paused. Add Cineform yellow caution blinking light to warn about low power, low recording time and need to read warning on recorder display. Maximize Cineform capability to always make “usable recordings” and minimize capability of “unusable recordings” that might otherwise result from irresolvable conflicts between camera settings/controls, external audio mixer settings and Cineform recorder settings/controls. Consider adding infrared control capability to Cineform recorder that can work with the camera’s infrared controls via toslink cable connection between camera and Cineform recorder. Purpose is to enable certain functions of both the camera and the Cineform recorder (e.g. start pause, stop) to be implemented simultaneously with the press of one control. This is admittedly kludgey, but might work for some cameras.
4. AUDIO INPUT CAPABILITIES. Cineform audio should either come from the camera outputs OR Cineform recorder inputs but not simultaneously from both sources (e.g. HDMI and NON-NDMI).. Note that the preliminary Edirol F-1 video field recorder includes two audio inputs to add audio channels 3 and 4 to the channels 1 and 2 passed from the camera. I do not think you intended similar usage of the Cineform recorder audio inputs. Note that I want the ability to use the Cineform audio inputs to record audio from external mixer instead of using any audio passed from the camera via HDMI.
5. CAMERAS. We have been using Canon HV20s, BUT will gladly switch to other HDMI cameras with an output that enables direct control of certain Cineform recorder functions (e.g. start record, pause record, stop record, etc) and to rid ourselves of the tapes and their inevitable dropouts.
6. BETA TEST. I would especially welcome the opportunity to beta test your user interface and controls for overall usability.
7. CINEFORM “READER” QUESTION. How feasible/desirable/practical would it be to have a Cineform reader/viewer senario similar to Adobe Acrobat in concept that would enable the Cineform compressed objects to be stored in Cineform proprietary format on internet or dvd and only fully viewable by “authorized” end user consumers? This might have capability to reduce storage requirements and at the same time control who is able to view the output. It would be great if we could use Cineform to minimize archival space requirements and maximize ability to control who can view/copy/edit Cineform recordings plus minimize the time required to “process” Cineform recordings.

[Howard Harrelson]

Hi David,

I'm wondering if this recorder is due for release this year?

Is it correct to think my HVR-V1U will output uncompressed HD video from the HDMI port which could then be recorded by this unit? If so, I definitely want one of these recorders or something like it.

Thanks...

[Klas Persson]

http://www.kinor.ru/products/flashdvr/

Check that out..

[Alex Raskin]

Very cool. Do you know how much Kinor charges for this unit?

[David Taylor]

CineForm hasn't formally discussed "Solid" (don't know if the name will remain or not, but we'll go with it for now....) project status in a while, and I realize everybody would like an update.

As background, everybody realizes we are large on innovation at CineForm but modest on resources. The last few months we have not been able to apply as many resources on Solid development as we'd like due to other priorities.

This is unfortunate as Solid is as exciting to us as to many of you who have offered comments in the forum - and also in private emails. Thank you for communicating your comments to us.

The good news is we're soon to emerge from our resource constraint and Solid development will benefit. We don't yet have a schedule to announce, but we'd like to have first unit prototypes as close to the end of the year as possible.

[Garrett Low]

I don't know if it is appropriate to post here since this unit is from a different company but this Edirol unit has a lot of very interesting features. If the Cineform unit cold have things such as the networking, audio syncing, and remote operation modes, along with the Cineform recording format, it would almost be the perfect unit for what I'd want.

http://www.edirol.com/index.php?opti...341&Itemid=390

[Fredrik-Larsson]

Originally Posted by Garrett Low

If the Cineform unit cold have things such as the networking, audio syncing, and remote operation modes, along with the Cineform recording format, it would almost be the perfect unit for what I'd want.

I totally agree. The only bad thing about the F1 is that it doesn't record to anything but DV and HDV (m2t). I think that a better HD-Codec is what the public wants and the Cineform device will offer that. The F1 seem to be at 3k USD vs the 2k USD price tag on the Cineform device. So I guess that we have to wait another year for the "Solid" to arrive. But it looks like a lot of interesting things are happening in this area and it's just a question of who can ship it first with reasonable features as well as a price.

[Elliott Tucker]

The Edirol does not have HDMI which puzzles me. But I really want the Cineform capability.

Originally Posted by Garrett Low

I don't know if it is appropriate to post here since this unit is from a different company but this Edirol unit has a lot of very interesting features. If the Cineform unit cold have things such as the networking, audio syncing, and remote operation modes, along with the Cineform recording format, it would almost be the perfect unit for what I'd want.

http://www.edirol.com/index.php?opti...341&Itemid=390

[Klas Persson]

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Very cool. Do you know how much Kinor charges for this unit?

4400€ for the 80 gb version, 6400€ for the 160gb version and 8600€ for the 320 gb version.

So they are pretty expensive.

They've also got a IO for EXPRESS CARD notebook system for 2400€