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Old November 27th, 2007, 07:30 PM   #1
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Vista vs XP

Okay, I have been using Vista for a long time, but, these darn reports on performance of the two keeps getting to me.

So, David's, or anyone, have you done an A/B with the same project,
CS3, and cineform with each OS and seen which one is faster/most stable?

Thanks

Dave
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Old November 27th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #2
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"Windows XP Significantly Outperforms Vista, Tests Show"

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=204203975
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Old November 27th, 2007, 08:49 PM   #3
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Which is why on my new Intel quad core 9650 with 8gig ram, I opted for XP Pro 64bit. Vista just ant pretty.

Having said that Im only now hearing horror stories about Adobe CS3 Master Collection NOT installing on an XP 64bit machine. Can anyone confirm this?

I stupidly just assumed from reading a post in this forum saying that cineform worked with XP 64bit that Adobe would as well. Can anyone confirm they have CS3 master collection installed and running fine on XP 64bit?

I did find a post on the adobe forum for a work around but it looks way messy which leads me to believe the problems are more to do with the installer than the applications themselves.

Hmmmm
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Old November 27th, 2007, 09:05 PM   #4
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Man, if you think vista is bad, X64 stuff is worse. I have tried a few times
and I totally gave up.

Dave
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Old November 27th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #5
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Thanks Dave, not really liking you right now.

Oh well Ill have my computer end of week - so either it works or I re-install XP Pro and have 4gig of ram sitting around doing squat.

I just cant understand huge companies like Adobe...were in an industry thatís constantly screaming 'more ram, more ram' at us yet there is so little support for the only OS that would allow us to actually use it.

I mean one of the main reasons I went 4 cores with 8 gig is to take full advantage of Nucleo Pro in AE. This based on a post I read from one of their techs with the consensus being Nucleo Pro works best with roughly 2gig available to each core.

Madness...
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Old November 28th, 2007, 04:08 AM   #6
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Hello.
I am using CS3 in Xp64 for months with no problem.
He completed a documentary on HD (Blackmagic Decklink) and everything perfect.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 05:39 AM   #7
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You De man Manuel, at the very least it gives me hope.

I made a list of every application I really need and am checking for X64 compatibility / workarounds (isnít that the way you do it, order the system and then check to see if your software is compatible with it?)

Fingers crossed.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 06:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
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You De man Manuel, at the very least it gives me hope.

I made a list of every application I really need and am checking for X64 compatibility / workarounds (isn’t that the way you do it, order the system and then check to see if your software is compatible with it?)

Fingers crossed.
Paul, as I understand it, it doesn't make any difference as to whether you use 32-bit or x64, as the limitation for the amount of memory accessible is limited to the 2 GB for each 32bit Window app. No one that I know of has ever figured a way around that prob. It hurts us especially with full HD (1920x1080) scale video and trying to use CF (it's not their problem) and other plugins.

It's a royal pain and the reason we need 64bit ADOBE APPS! Are you listening Adobe? Port your applications to 64bit, if you really care about your customers!

Only workaround we've ever found, is to keep projects broken up as small as possible, especially when doing large scale video, memory intensive stuff.

Sorry for the bad news. If anyone has solid proof they can do anything else, they'll be a hero here!

For our two bits, stick with XP Pro...you'll thank yourself if you do. Vista is DOA and most major corporations are now waiting for Win 7. I've been doing computer stuff since 1985 and the trend is clear. Vista is a dead fish and MS will beat it until extracts everything it can from it. If you can make it run, more power to you, but if you can chose, use XP for now.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 07:08 AM   #9
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Hey Stephen,

Honestly if it wasnít for Nucleo Pro I probably would. However the way Nucleo works is that even though AE is 32bit, Nucleo opens multiple versions in the background for as many cores as you have.

Thatís why I went 8gig as that way 4 versions of AE will be used at the same time on my Quad core to render and each will be allocated roughly 2 gig of memory. Something Nucleo couldnít do on a 32 bit O/S, or at least thatís what I was lead to believe.

I have to admit I was a bit mystified with Adobes lack of 64bit support. I too hope this changes sooner rather than later. I hear Sony are releasing a Vegas 64bit version very soon...maybe this will be the start...
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Old November 28th, 2007, 02:16 PM   #10
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Here at CineForm, we do discourage the usage of Vista due to its performance setbacks and lingering compatibility issues.

However, a friend shared this link with me: http://www.pctuneuptips.com/tips/vis...FShxYAodjGRdIg

It's a list of 10 Vista *tweaks* to help improve performance. We've got a 2.6GHz Core2Duo laptop running Vista (but with only 1GB RAM), and after following these steps, I can actually browse the internet at a relatively livable speed. The lack of RAM is preventing me from doing any video work, however.

If you're stuck with Vista, it's at least worth a shot. They should all be safe modifications, but don't hold me or CineForm liable if something goes wrong! ;-)
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Old November 29th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #11
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Hey Stephen,

Honestly if it wasnít for Nucleo Pro I probably would. However the way Nucleo works is that even though AE is 32bit, Nucleo opens multiple versions in the background for as many cores as you have.

Thatís why I went 8gig as that way 4 versions of AE will be used at the same time on my Quad core to render and each will be allocated roughly 2 gig of memory. Something Nucleo couldnít do on a 32 bit O/S, or at least thatís what I was lead to believe.

I have to admit I was a bit mystified with Adobes lack of 64bit support. I too hope this changes sooner rather than later. I hear Sony are releasing a Vegas 64bit version very soon...maybe this will be the start...
Just wondered where you got the info that Nucleo could do more than 4 GB under Windows? We'd really like to know. I can't find any info on their website. If they can, it would certainly be of use to many others here.
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Old November 29th, 2007, 08:46 PM   #12
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Hi Stephen,

Good question - it was going back a while but I believe it was in a post answered by a Gridiron employee.

Don’t forget I’m talking about AE/Nucleo running on a 64bit operating system with multiple cores (4) meaning 4 instances of AE running where each would be allocated around 2gb of memory.

Best bet would be to shoot them an email to get it straight from the horses mouth. I would but as my system is days away from arriving I figure I'll just test it out for myself.
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Old November 30th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #13
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Paul, AE is a 32bit application and I believe the same constraints apply irregardless of whether you're thunking that 32bits in a 64bit environment. It's the 32 application that limits it, not even the OS.

Since many of us also use quads, AE, PP3, and many 32bit plugins and would love to access more memory for the reasons I stated, if you discover some new light on this, we're all ears.

If not, I think you better review that 8 GB RAM purchase, as unless you have 64 bit apps to use with it, it'll just sit there doing absolutely nothing for you. If it's already bought and on it's way, then you can just hope Adobe ports it's apps soon, so you (and many many others) can use it.

As I stated earlier, if you do discover something new that can gain benefit from that 8GB RAM, please share it with us here!
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Old November 30th, 2007, 01:12 PM   #14
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Nucleo DOES allow the 32bit version of AE to access more than 4GB of RAM, in a way. By executing multiple instances of the AE program process, each can access a different segment of RAM. The only thing these other instances do is render frames at the request of the primary GUI instance. This solution doesn't increase the maximium processable frame size in regards to Memory usage, but does increase the speed of rendering on larger complex comps.
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Old November 30th, 2007, 01:34 PM   #15
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Nucleo DOES allow the 32bit version of AE to access more than 4GB of RAM, in a way. By executing multiple instances of the AE program process, each can access a different segment of RAM. The only thing these other instances do is render frames at the request of the primary GUI instance. This solution doesn't increase the maximium processable frame size in regards to Memory usage, but does increase the speed of rendering on larger complex comps.

(added later: Mike, don't waste your time answering this, as we can look it up on their website. If you do use it, however, we'd like your take as to cost/benefit in the the real world)

Mike, to get a better handle on how this could help in real life situations, can you paint a little better picture of how you're using it? Since AE already utilizes most of the processor power we have (quad), is the gain mostly just for prerendering background layers as you are working?

I'm just a little fuzzy how it could show real performance gains. Is it actually "swapping" background video layers into additional memory space on those sessions, to allow for more undo levels, or holding them until an idled processor can be put to work on them?

If it does process in the background, and feed out different layers to virtual AE sessions, it could certainly help workflow on large comps.

Do you actually use it, and does anyone else here use it? If so, please share your take on it. Any true gains are certainly welcome.
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Last edited by Stephen Armour; November 30th, 2007 at 01:43 PM. Reason: add information
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