HV20 > NeoHD Flickering Double Image at DVinfo.net

Jim Browning · December 21st, 2007, 11:23 PM

Just captured for the first time, and all the clips exhibit a double image and flicker when viewed (in Windows Media Player). The audio is fine, but the video does not show in Vegas Studio 8 Platinum. I used all the default settings, so no adjustment of frame rate. Other clips on the system view fine in WMP.

Any Ideas?

TIA...
--
Jim

David Newman · December 22nd, 2007, 12:42 AM

Support knows about this one, it might be a graphics card issue. Support will be back Wednesday.

Jim Browning · December 22nd, 2007, 08:58 AM

Thanks David... I'll submit a ticket with a sample.

Jim Browning · December 22nd, 2007, 11:02 AM

Both a capture directly into a .mov wrapper, and files converted to .mov from the .avi capture, both work fine. So at least I have a workaround... :-)

I tried uploading a file to support but it was too big, so I'll capture a smaller file into the .avi wrapper and submit it, just in case it is helpful.

Thanks again...

David Newman · December 22nd, 2007, 11:09 AM

You will want to be using AVI, which has better PC support. It is a setting on your graphics card, but I don't remember what it is. Others on this forum have fixed this in the past.

For a short AVI, load a long one into VirtualDub, set it for Direct Stream copy in the video menu, mark in and out points and export to a short AVI, only takes a few seconds. In VirtualDub you will see the AVI fine, and it is your graphic card that is messing up the playback.

Jim Browning · December 22nd, 2007, 03:38 PM

I've opened a ticket, after trying to card setting adjustments with no luck. All other .avi's work fine, both in the player and in Vegas, and as I've said, so do the CineForm files wrapped in .mov. It is only Cineform generated .avi's that have an issue, and it is only the video; audio is good.

If someone is willing to download this ~30MB file and verify that it can be viewed by them, I'd sure appreciate it, as it would confirm that this is related my video card, as David has suggested. Not that I doubt that, I've just learned through the years to verify things one step at a time. Here is a link directly to the file..

http://www.fundation.com/Images/HDLinkTest.avi

David Newman · December 22nd, 2007, 04:29 PM

The file plays fine, it is a card setting. Other no CineForm footage can do it too if has the same characteristics. It is something to do with the 3D properties and/or overlay support on NVidia cards.

Jim Browning · December 22nd, 2007, 04:41 PM

Thanks David... I'll keep playing with the settings, and maybe someone who experienced the same thing will post.

Happy Holidays!

Ali Husain · December 25th, 2007, 10:45 PM

i've got the same problem on a new machine with the latest neo hdv (3.2.2). my card is an nvidia quadro fx 570. the files were encoded with a version of hdlink from june. i get a double image when playing with wmp. but if i open the same .avi files with quicktime player it looks fine (although quicktime plays it pixel-for-pixel with a squished aspect).

the demo file above also plays with a double image.

David Newman · December 25th, 2007, 11:27 PM

It not the files, it is the overlay surface your NVidia cards are opening. The newer the card, the cr*pier the overlay surport.

Ali Husain · December 26th, 2007, 02:33 AM

pc device compatibility is a horribly complex problem and i wouldn't fault nvidia or cineform. in this case it's certainly a driver/windows setting issue.

the problem seems to show up if you're using windows media player with full-hardware video acceleration and just the right nvidia card and drivers. and it is, as our cineform guru has pointed out, a hardware overlay problem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_overlay )

with a little poking around i've found a fix. i'm not sure if it will work for everyone since i'm not a video driver or graphics card person.

in windows media player go to:

Tools->Options->Performance->(under "Video acceleration" click "Advanced:")

in the pop-up under "Video Acceleration->Use video mixing renderer" click off "Use overlays"

that solved the problem for me. my system performance meter during playback is still between 15% and 25%, and hasn't changed with turning off "use overlays."

Jim Browning · December 26th, 2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali Husain

Tools->Options->Performance->(under "Video acceleration" click "Advanced:")

in the pop-up under "Video Acceleration->Use video mixing renderer" click off "Use overlays"

Thanks Ali... I'll give that a try as soon as I get home this evening.

Jim Browning · December 26th, 2007, 08:49 PM

Woo Hoo.... it worked!

Thanks again....

Jim Browning · December 27th, 2007, 12:31 PM

I spoke too soon... I'm only half way there. While all is good within WMP11, I still cannot see the CineForm .avi's within Vegas. :-(

I've updated my CineForm support ticket with that info.

Sigh...

Jim Browning · December 27th, 2007, 08:02 PM

Support provided a replacement for one of the Sony DLLs, and all is well. Thanks to everyone for their help, and kudos to CineForm. I'll definitely go ahead and license my trial copy.

December 21st, 2007, 11:23 PM	#1
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	HV20 > NeoHD Flickering Double Image Just captured for the first time, and all the clips exhibit a double image and flicker when viewed (in Windows Media Player). The audio is fine, but the video does not show in Vegas Studio 8 Platinum. I used all the default settings, so no adjustment of frame rate. Other clips on the system view fine in WMP. Any Ideas? TIA... -- Jim

December 22nd, 2007, 12:42 AM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Support knows about this one, it might be a graphics card issue. Support will be back Wednesday. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 22nd, 2007, 11:02 AM	#4
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	.mov is fine; .avi sucks :-) Both a capture directly into a .mov wrapper, and files converted to .mov from the .avi capture, both work fine. So at least I have a workaround... :-) I tried uploading a file to support but it was too big, so I'll capture a smaller file into the .avi wrapper and submit it, just in case it is helpful. Thanks again...

December 22nd, 2007, 11:09 AM	#5
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You will want to be using AVI, which has better PC support. It is a setting on your graphics card, but I don't remember what it is. Others on this forum have fixed this in the past. For a short AVI, load a long one into VirtualDub, set it for Direct Stream copy in the video menu, mark in and out points and export to a short AVI, only takes a few seconds. In VirtualDub you will see the AVI fine, and it is your graphic card that is messing up the playback. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 22nd, 2007, 03:38 PM	#6
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	Ticket Opened I've opened a ticket, after trying to card setting adjustments with no luck. All other .avi's work fine, both in the player and in Vegas, and as I've said, so do the CineForm files wrapped in .mov. It is only Cineform generated .avi's that have an issue, and it is only the video; audio is good. If someone is willing to download this ~30MB file and verify that it can be viewed by them, I'd sure appreciate it, as it would confirm that this is related my video card, as David has suggested. Not that I doubt that, I've just learned through the years to verify things one step at a time. Here is a link directly to the file.. http://www.fundation.com/Images/HDLinkTest.avi

December 22nd, 2007, 08:58 AM	#3
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	Thanks David... I'll submit a ticket with a sample.

December 22nd, 2007, 04:29 PM	#7
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The file plays fine, it is a card setting. Other no CineForm footage can do it too if has the same characteristics. It is something to do with the 3D properties and/or overlay support on NVidia cards. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 22nd, 2007, 04:41 PM	#8
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	Thanks David... I'll keep playing with the settings, and maybe someone who experienced the same thing will post. Happy Holidays!

December 25th, 2007, 10:45 PM	#9
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	i've got the same problem on a new machine with the latest neo hdv (3.2.2). my card is an nvidia quadro fx 570. the files were encoded with a version of hdlink from june. i get a double image when playing with wmp. but if i open the same .avi files with quicktime player it looks fine (although quicktime plays it pixel-for-pixel with a squished aspect). the demo file above also plays with a double image.

December 25th, 2007, 11:27 PM	#10
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It not the files, it is the overlay surface your NVidia cards are opening. The newer the card, the cr*pier the overlay surport. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 26th, 2007, 02:33 AM	#11
Ali Husain Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 141	pc device compatibility is a horribly complex problem and i wouldn't fault nvidia or cineform. in this case it's certainly a driver/windows setting issue. the problem seems to show up if you're using windows media player with full-hardware video acceleration and just the right nvidia card and drivers. and it is, as our cineform guru has pointed out, a hardware overlay problem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_overlay ) with a little poking around i've found a fix. i'm not sure if it will work for everyone since i'm not a video driver or graphics card person. in windows media player go to: Tools->Options->Performance->(under "Video acceleration" click "Advanced:") in the pop-up under "Video Acceleration->Use video mixing renderer" click off "Use overlays" that solved the problem for me. my system performance meter during playback is still between 15% and 25%, and hasn't changed with turning off "use overlays."

December 26th, 2007, 08:49 PM	#13
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	Woo Hoo.... it worked! Thanks again....

December 27th, 2007, 12:31 PM	#14
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	I spoke too soon... I'm only half way there. While all is good within WMP11, I still cannot see the CineForm .avi's within Vegas. :-( I've updated my CineForm support ticket with that info. Sigh...

December 27th, 2007, 08:02 PM	#15
Jim Browning Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 60	Support provided a replacement for one of the Sony DLLs, and all is well. Thanks to everyone for their help, and kudos to CineForm. I'll definitely go ahead and license my trial copy.