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Old March 26th, 2008, 02:01 AM   #1
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Prospec HD and CS3

Im a newbie wit dis cineform shiznits.

Ive installed Prospec HD with my CS3. I should note that im a XHA1 user and i'd like to know the best capture ways for my footage for my 24f and 60i for slow mo-shots that will be all used on a 23.976 timeline? From the past ive been using the free HDsplit for capturing my m2t files. My old work flow was editing raw m2t files in prem and then finalizing and exporting from AE.

1. Which cineform presets do i use for 24f in prem... 1920x1080 24p progressive? Shouldnt it be set to upper fields? I notice from the past when working in AE on a 23.976 comp that after effects would read the m2t files as upper fields.

2. Also, where do i select this 8bit conversion to 10bit when i capture? Does it automatically capture @ 10bits when using the cineformHDV option? Where do i change it? Do i capture with premiere and then use HDlink can convert my m2t files to avi?
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Old March 26th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #2
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Capture in Prospect HD Premiere capture tool, or use HDLink, either way the results are an AVI ready to edit. 24f vs 24p, simply defaults the capture to remove pulldown or not -- 24f mode doesn't need pulldown removal -- the timelines are the same, progressive, NOT top field first (that would be wrong.) 10bit is automatic.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 01:09 AM   #3
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more newbie questions...

To clarify ... instead of the Cineform HD preset mode, can i change it to Cineform HDV 1080i for 1440x1080 @ (1.333) and still capture @ 10bits?

Also for the Cineform Ecoder options the "high" setting ok? Filmscan1 - 2?

So about this 10bit stuff... Lets say after capturing, converting and editing my project in premier... I'll then import the timeline into AE to finalize and then export. DO i have to manually change AE to recognize 10bits? Or sill automatically know its 10bits footage?

Is there a big difference between square pixels (1.0) and HD anamorphic (1.333) for HDV footage?
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Last edited by Ozan Biron; March 27th, 2008 at 03:59 AM.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 10:56 AM   #4
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Sorry the 10-bit stuff is confusing. Our compression takes you 8-bit source and compresses as 10-bit, that does not generate two more bit of data, but it does improve compression quality (that is way it is automatic.) 10-bit is more significant upon re-encode with your NLE (Premiere) or compositor apps (AE) when you manipulate color, the deeper processing (16-bit or 32-bit float) and 10-bit re-encode hugely help reduce contouring or banding. You do need to see 16/32-bit modes in AE to use this, and use at least Propect HD in Premiere.

Square vs 1.33:1 pixels is not a big difference for HDV 1080 sources.

Quality, If you are HDV compressed originally, use High, if you are using live/uncompressed sources, use Filmscan 1.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #5
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im almost there... got a few more for ya.

When i use premier or HDlink to capture my M2t files... does it compresses right away @ 10bits or after the conversion processes from m2t to avi is where all the magic happens?

Since i like to film alot of 60i for slow-mo and mix it up with my 24p timeline. DO i have to encode the 60i m2t files seperately from the 24f files? I guess i select the 60p to 24p option? OR will HDLink encode the 60i as 29.97... then i can edit and treat the slowmo footage later in AE before exporting?
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Old March 27th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #6
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Magic happens during M2T to AVI conversion.

Handle your 60i clips separately, we don't have a 60i to 60p to 24p mode, but we hope to one day.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 02:44 AM   #7
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sooo if i need to outsource my colour correction... can i export my sequence from my timeline as a raw uncompress file either from AE or premiere and the 10bit mombo jumbo will be maintained?
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Old March 28th, 2008, 10:19 AM   #8
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Clearly I need another white paper. Here is brief explanation http://www.cineform.com/products/Asp...pect.htm#10bit You need to use 10-bit when you render a color correction, to avoid banding. CineForm never recommends exporting to uncompressed, useless the target system requires it.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 04:47 PM   #9
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ah ok coo, tank you. Sorry for these stupid repetitive questions. Im slowly learning. Eh.

Ight, a few more questions coming down da pipe...

After encoding several m2t files to avi. And testing workflow from prem to AE its looking pretty good. Its seems that after conversion to avi files they are huge ass with "high" selected. Will be ok if i go to medium? Im also stayign away from 1920x1080 and keeping it simple with 1440x1080... "none" So i dont know if that also help with file size?
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Old March 28th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #10
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Clearly you don't know real HD data rates. CineForm file are only "huge" when compared with the very heavily compressed m2t files -- there are not a good reference for HD datarate. HD is 155MBytes/s for 1920x1080 4:2:2 10-bit, the same CineForm files, with the same visual quality might be only 15MB/s, 10 times smaller. CineForm is not trying to match M2T lower quality, we are trying to match the quality of 155MB/s and a significantly more manable file size.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 05:22 PM   #11
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Ye, ive been stuck in the DV SD world for a long time...
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Old March 28th, 2008, 05:23 PM   #12
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And SD DV and HD m2t files are the same size, so something had to give. We don't play that game.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 03:15 AM   #13
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little mini question...

The only thing i notice now is scene detection "selected" under pref's and during capture it doesn't seem to break up the files!?! Is this cause its a trial version? To make sure my camera was facked or if i was going crazy... i tested with HDVsplit and scene detection worked fine.

Any ideas? Note... im using the XHA1 for capture.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 10:04 AM   #14
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Weirdly the scene detection sometime doesn't work if the cameras clock was not set at the time of capture. Could that be the case?
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Old April 1st, 2008, 09:56 PM   #15
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hmm, im not to sure wat it is. It jst worked again today. however, yesterday it didnt.

side question... Ive been noticing a little bit of a strobing when the camera pans or any fast movement. Kinda like a skew issues or somthing. Is this because of the compression after going to avi? Or anything to do with canons 24f and there version of 24p? I'll have to do more tests and compare it with the raw m2t file and cineforms avi.

Jst to make sure... about dis 10bit exporting stuff from AE. My comp is set to 16bits and after my color correction & comp effects i export using video for windows "no compression"... Is that ok? Or do i have to use "Cineform HD codec v3.6.2?" Wats the best setting?

www.ozan.ca/ozan/AE_export.jpg

which option do i use?
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Last edited by Ozan Biron; April 2nd, 2008 at 02:45 AM.
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